Beer and the Word of Wisdom

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Tex

It surely did. What the author of that article is questioning is the scope of the vote, and how serious the commandment/counsel was meant to be taken (santos should have fun with that).

But he doesn't seem to question that a sustaining vote was held. I don't recall a vote being held in General Conference on the R-rated question that fits even the narrowest interpretation of Young's 1851 statement.

Two points:

1. Our understanding of Young's September 1851 conference, as you note, is vague in how widespread and binding the signs of approval were. It seems clear, however, from the rest of the article, though, that the idea of WoW = commandment was still undetermined.

2. Even if the WoW was a bona fide commandment in 1851, it still allows for the consumption of beer. My biggest question isn't whether or not the WoW is a commandment or counsel, but why the modern, current version seems to contradict the text of the revelation.

Even Young's later statements laid out in this article that lament the continued use of prohibited substances (e.g. tea, coffee) criticize the consumption of liquor - not beer.

Commandment or not, it seems that the prohibition against beer is unfounded.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Tex

Unforunately, I think this is how most members approach a temple recommend.

that's unfortunate? meaning when they get asked about their temple worthiness they don't bother with customs but with the commandments?

[Solon]

Originally Posted by Tex

Unforunately, I think this is how most members approach a temple recommend.

Honest question: how should they approach it? It doesn't seem that easy (IMO) to quantify something like "worthiness."

[RC Vikings]

Thanks to Cougarguard I now won't feel so guilty about having that beer with my steak when I go out to eat, having some cold ice tea on a hot summer day and having some coffee in the morning to get me going. You almost had me with an affair not being so bad but it's going to take me a little longer to justify that one.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by RC Vikings

You almost had me with an affair not being so bad but it's going to take me a little longer to justify that one.

It's inevitable, just do it.

You can afterall obtain forgiveness; permission is much harder.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Solon

Two points:

1. Our understanding of Young's September 1851 conference, as you note, is vague in how widespread and binding the signs of approval were. It seems clear, however, from the rest of the article, though, that the idea of WoW = commandment was still undetermined.

2. Even if the WoW was a bona fide commandment in 1851, it still allows for the consumption of beer. My biggest question isn't whether or not the WoW is a commandment or counsel, but why the modern, current version seems to contradict the text of the revelation.

Even Young's later statements laid out in this article that lament the continued use of prohibited substances (e.g. tea, coffee) criticize the consumption of liquor - not beer.

Commandment or not, it seems that the prohibition against beer is unfounded.

I confess my alcohol knowledge is not good enough for me to go tit-for-tat with you on liquor vs. beer vs. other forms, or iced tea vs. hot tea, etc. It's enough for me that a modern prophet has interpreted it this way, whether or not it came from an unclear 1851 sustaining vote or not. I doubt very seriously were you to ask one of them, that they would agree with your view that it contradicts the text. If the Lord commanded it, they could add Big Macs to the list and it will still comport with the spirit of the revelation.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

that's unfortunate? meaning when they get asked about their temple worthiness they don't bother with customs but with the commandments?

Originally Posted by Solon

Honest question: how should they approach it? It doesn't seem that easy (IMO) to quantify something like "worthiness."

I agree. When the scriptures say "seek to obtain charity" or "seek to be humble" it's not easily quantifiable, if at all. Doesn't mean they aren't commandments, however. Though I doubt it, maybe someday the temple recommend questions will include "are you meek?" but I don't think they were ever intended as the final list of the only binding commandments.

[RC Vikings]

Originally Posted by Archaea

It's inevitable, just do it.

You can afterall obtain forgiveness; permission is much harder.

I would have about the same odds with forgiveness or permission from the wife.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Tex

I confess my alcohol knowledge is not good enough for me to go tit-for-tat with you on liquor vs. beer vs. other forms, or iced tea vs. hot tea, etc. It's enough for me that a modern prophet has interpreted it this way, whether or not it came from an unclear 1851 sustaining vote or not. I doubt very seriously were you to ask one of them, that they would agree with your view that it contradicts the text. If the Lord commanded it, they could add Big Macs to the list and it will still comport with the spirit of the revelation.

Liquor = hard or strong alcholic drinks. Beer is not usually considered same (although some belgian beers can make you stand up and notice, or so I am told).

Iced tea was, traditionally, simply brewed tea cooled and poured over ice. IOW, it is no different. There is sun-brewed tea, however, which might be considered to be different, and, in the more modern era, instant tea messes this all up.

The ahndbook gives guidance on this but, as someone pointed out, the temple recommend question is only whether you keep the WoW. Self-governance, with prayerful consideration and taking into account the words of prophets, seems to the the idea here.

[Chapel-Hill-Coug]

Originally Posted by Solon

Il Padrino Ute’s recent question in the Religion forum about iced tea, coupled with my ongoing musings about presentist revisionism spawned this question I’ve been nursing for awhile. The Word of Wisdom, to me at least, pretty clearly allows for consumption of beer and other “mild drinks.” According to my understanding, the WoW prohibits wine and “strong drinks” (D&C 89.3, 5), but “mild drinks” made from grains (D&C 89.17) are okay.

After doing a little digging, and finding that the “commandmentization” of the WoW is debatable, it has come to my attention that, either due to ignorance of alcoholic beverages or an oversight spawned by the current policies, few people - whether scholars or religious figures - have made the distinction between strong and weak drinks in a WoW context.

So, the nit-picking about iced tea and caffeine aside, can LDS drink beer with a clean conscience? (BTW, the temple recommend question asks the member only, "Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?")

I think they can.

I invite you to peruse the fine articles written by Thomas G. Alexander and Robert J. McCue for the primary sources, background information, and some insightful commentary on how the Word of Wisdom “became” a commandment and how it fits into the broader context of American social movements.

Thomas G. Alexander, “The Word of Wisdom: From Principle to Requirement” in Dialogue, vol. 14.3 (Autumn 1981), pp. 78-88.

Robert J. McCue, “Did the Word of Wisdom Become a Commandment in 1851?” in Dialogue, vol. 14.3 (Autumn 1981), pp. 66-77.

You can read Dialogue vol. 14 at:
http://content.lib.utah.edu/cdm4/doc...&CISOSHOW=6510

Didn't Arrington, while he was church historian, publish something in BYU Studies about the evolution of the WOW being conditioned by economics and politics? I read a summary of the article a couple years ago, I'm pretty sure. If anyone has a citation please let me know.