Brigham Young on Bible Translation

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

I think the Official Cougarguard Position is that the Isaiah chapters in the Book of Mormon was some odd Joseph Smith artifact where he grabbed his KJV and slapped a few applicable Messianic and latter-day passages, complete with their anachronisms and incorrect translations due to the flawed 17th century source material.

Silly hyperbole aside, what is your explanation for the similarities?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Silly hyperbole aside, what is your explanation for the similarities?

Hyperbole? There is no hyperbole here. Chapel-Hill-Coug and at least a couple of others have asserted this very thing; due to the Deutero Isaiah text and so forth.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Hyperbole? There is no hyperbole here. Chapel-Hill-Coug and at least a couple of others have asserted this very thing; due to the Deutero Isaiah text and so forth.

You failed to answer my question.

Edit: And I think anytime you take it upon yourself to summarize "the official Cougarguard position" we are firmly in the realm of silly hyperbole.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

You failed to answer my question.

Actually, I don't have an explanation, but I have a hard time reconciling Joseph Smith, who painstakingly spelled out proper names letter by letter because he couldn't pronounce them suddenly dropping the seer stones or whatever the translation method du jour was when he got wind of a little Isaiah and picked up his KJV (instead of continuing to translate the text as he read it) and started copying and pasting in stuff, including passages that post-dated Nephi's lifespan.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Actually, I don't have an explanation, but I have a hard time reconciling Joseph Smith, who painstakingly spelled out proper names letter by letter because he couldn't pronounce them suddenly dropping the seer stones or whatever the translation method du jour was when he got wind of a little Isaiah and picked up his KJV (instead of continuing to translate the text as he read it) and started copying and pasting in stuff, including passages that post-dated Nephi's lifespan.

Maybe he needed a break.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

You failed to answer my question.

Edit: And I think anytime you take it upon yourself to summarize "the official Cougarguard position" we are firmly in the realm of silly hyperbole.

I have yet to see anyone else really challenge that position. I take that to be silent assent from the remainder of the board. When I bring up some problems I have with that interpretation and only get opposing viewpoints and a complete dearth of viewpoints that agree with mine, I take that to mean that I hold the distinctly minority opinion.

EDIT: BTW, you need to overhaul your classification system as virtually everything either goes into the "Hyperbole" and/or the "Irony" folders.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I recall reading many years ago that many LDS scholars believe that JS inserted the KJV text where appropriate when he came to Isaiah sections that he recognized. Shoot, I think I even read that in the Ensign. If so, then I would certainly expect the corresponding sections in the BOM to carry the same errors at the KJV.

Do you happen to have a reference to this many-years-ago article?

Given how little we really know about the translation process, and given what we do know about the JST process, I personally don't find it far-fetched that Joseph would couch the translation language in terms with which he was familiar. Anyone who's ever tried to do a translation knows there is almost never one perfect way to translate an idea, especially ideas as abstract as those in the gospel.

But in reality I don't have a good explanation either. With a hat tip to Indy, I too find it beyond reason to think that Joseph start free-wheeling it with the Bible right in the middle of his translation process.

As to the "Official Cougarguard Position", it's near axiom now that if there's a position on an issue that can cast a prophet or LDS leader in an unfavorable light, the majority here will take it. There seems to be an uncanny amount of glee in seeing how "human" we can make them look.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by Tex

Do you happen to have a reference to this many-years-ago article?

Given how little we really know about the translation process, and given what we do know about the JST process, I personally don't find it far-fetched that Joseph would couch the translation language in terms with which he was familiar. Anyone who's ever tried to do a translation knows there is almost never one perfect way to translate an idea, especially ideas as abstract as those in the gospel.

But in reality I don't have a good explanation either. With a hat tip to Indy, I too find it beyond reason to think that Joseph start free-wheeling it with the Bible right in the middle of his translation process.

Why would that be "free-wheeling" it? For the life of me, I can't understand why that concept would be so troublesome or disturbing to people. Why reinvent the wheel? He already had access to a translation; why not use it? JS never claimed that the BOM was perfect. Quite the contrary.

Originally Posted by Tex

As to the "Official Cougarguard Position", it's near axiom now that if there's a position on an issue that can cast a prophet or LDS leader in an unfavorable light, the majority here will take it. There seems to be an uncanny amount of glee in seeing how "human" we can make them look.

First of all, you're FOS with your axiom.

Second, I do not agree that this casts JS in a negative light.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

Why would that be "free-wheeling" it? For the life of me, I can't understand why that concept would be so troublesome or disturbing to people. Why reinvent the wheel? He already had access to a translation; why not use it? JS never claimed that the BOM was perfect. Quite the contrary.

I refuse to believe someone who has repeatedly accused me of being duplicitous in my views cannot see the inherent conflict of interest here. If Joseph truly lifted passages wholesale from the KJV, it lays at the very foundation of what the BofM claims to be.

[Indy Coug]

Are the Beatitudes from 3rd Nephi a copy and paste exercise too?