On KW - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

jay santos · 03-01-2007, 08:25 PM

Here's what happened with Kyle with 90% certainty:

Kyle wanted the head job at BYU or Utah. With everything else being equal, he preferred BYU for the quality of the program, the church affiliation, and his history with the program. He preferred Utah due to his current bonds developed with players, coaches and boosters and also the location since his teenage kids were entrenched in their schools. Even with money equal, it would have been a hard decision, but my understanding is that he would have chosen BYU.

He would have taken BYU's offer had he not had the counteroffer. But the lowball offer from BYU did make him question their commitment to him, especially when Utah's offer came and was so much higher. He also was concerned with the brethren's involvement and the non-football issues, i.e. honor code, and how much that would handcuff him to do his job.

It was a tough decision for Kyle and he went with the U. Any one of a handful of issues could be named the one thing that swayed him: commitment to his players, not having to uproot his family, $, Honor Code issues at BYU, and instability of BYU admin especially AD position.

I think it's lame to call KW a traitor. For rivalry smack I guess it's cool, but if you really believe that way and have hatred for Kyle, I think you're an idiot.

Also, if you have "inside" info that KW either a) acted completely unethical in a way that BYU fans should hate him or b) think KW never cared for BYU and played them to get the Utah job he wanted all along, I also think you're an idiot.

mpfunk · 03-01-2007, 08:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

Here's what happened with Kyle with 90% certainty:

Kyle wanted the head job at BYU or Utah. With everything else being equal, he preferred BYU for the quality of the program, the church affiliation, and his history with the program. He preferred Utah due to his current bonds developed with players, coaches and boosters and also the location since his teenage kids were entrenched in their schools. Even with money equal, it would have been a hard decision, but my understanding is that he would have chosen BYU.

He would have taken BYU's offer had he not had the counteroffer. But the lowball offer from BYU did make him question their commitment to him, especially when Utah's offer came and was so much higher. He also was concerned with the brethren's involvement and the non-football issues, i.e. honor code, and how much that would handcuff him to do his job.

It was a tough decision for Kyle and he went with the U. Any one of a handful of issues could be named the one thing that swayed him: commitment to his players, not having to uproot his family, $, Honor Code issues at BYU, and instability of BYU admin especially AD position.

I think it's lame to call KW a traitor. For rivalry smack I guess it's cool, but if you really believe that way and have hatred for Kyle, I think you're an idiot.

Also, if you have "inside" info that KW either a) acted completely unethical in a way that BYU fans should hate him or b) think KW never cared for BYU and played them to get the Utah job he wanted all along, I also think you're an idiot.

I agree with this post. Those who say that money was the only factor are being naive and just looking for a reason to criticize him. Those who claim that money was not a factor are being equally naive.

Indy Coug · 03-01-2007, 08:39 PM

All I know is that it was Divine Intervention that got us Bronco instead of Kyle as our head coach.

pelagius · 03-01-2007, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpfunk

I agree with this post. Those who say that money was the only factor are being naive and just looking for a reason to criticize him. Those who claim that money was not a factor are being equally naive.

I think you probably right about money not being the only factor. On the other hand, I don't think it is a big deal or reasonable to criticize him if money was the only or primary factor.

UteStar · 03-01-2007, 08:48 PM

There is a lot of Bronco love and it may be warranted...but it will be interesting to see how Bronco handles a still solid team that lost their main bigtime players. It is easy to look good for a year or two if you have your stars, it is much more difficult to do when they are gone and you are now the one on the line with your recruits and your coaching.

jay santos · 03-01-2007, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UteStar

There is a lot of Bronco love and it may be warranted...but it will be interesting to see how Bronco handles a still solid team that lost their main bigtime players. It is easy to look good for a year or two if you have your stars, it is much more difficult to do when they are gone and you are now the one on the line with your recruits and your coaching.

The biggest issues Bronco needed to handle were:

1. Hiring a good offensive coordinator and offensive coaching staff
2. Managing the head coach/DC job or delegating DC duties to a solid guy
3. Recruiting
4. Establish an environment of discipline and hard work

He's clearly succeeded on all counts. He had 1 and 4 down after his first year. His second year showed he had 2 and 3 down.

I don't see where any of this is going to fall apart anytime soon.

UteStar · 03-01-2007, 09:06 PM

I guess we'll see next year. It is hard to know anything about recruiting till we actually see the results on the field. Yes, it appears that Bronco has recruited well...lets see how it turns out.

I think he has done well with what he has had to work with so far. I am just saying, some very talented players (CB, Beck, Harline, etc.) can make any coach look good. I believe that Bronco could continue on and be a terrific coach...looks like he will get a chance to prove himself this upcoming year.

DrumNFeather · 03-02-2007, 12:21 PM

The other thing lost in this whole KW debate is the fact that BYU had 11 years to offer him a job of some kind if they wanted to and they never did.

I agree that it was probably a tough decision for Kyle regardless of how long he'd been away, but there were numerous times during his 11 years at Utah that a move to DC at BYU wouldn't have been considered lateral. In the last few years it probably has evened out on that front, but during the time when fans wanted Ken Schmidt gone, I have a tough time thinking KW would have turned it down.

You gotta give Crowton credit for one thing...he brought in his buddy and it worked out fairly well for the program.

jay santos · 03-02-2007, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

The other thing lost in this whole KW debate is the fact that BYU had 11 years to offer him a job of some kind if they wanted to and they never did.

I agree that it was probably a tough decision for Kyle regardless of how long he'd been away, but there were numerous times during his 11 years at Utah that a move to DC at BYU wouldn't have been considered lateral. In the last few years it probably has evened out on that front, but during the time when fans wanted Ken Schmidt gone, I have a tough time thinking KW would have turned it down.

You gotta give Crowton credit for one thing...he brought in his buddy and it worked out fairly well for the program.

If you were around CB during that time period, you know how upset I was with that hire.

I always liked riling up Cougar fans by saying that of everything Crowton did, that one hire might have cost him his job as much as anything. That last year in 2004 when Crowton went 5-6, his offense was about #70 and his defense was about #70 in the nation. The offense was dominated by sophomores and new starters. The defense was dominated with seniors and a lot of returning starters from a great D the year before. A few points would have turned that season from 5-6 to 6-5 or 7-4. I don't think there's any way KW would have turned in a #70 performance with those players.

That said, it's all water under the bridge and I'm very pleased with Bronco.

Insensitive PAP · 03-02-2007, 03:01 PM

We've already seen his recuiting results. He's had 2 recruiting classes and the following players have played from them.

In 2005, he signed 19 players. 5 have already started, 8 more have played meaningful minutes, and will be competing for jobs this year, 4 went directly on missions, and 1 player left (to Boise State).

In 2006, 25 players signed, 2 players started, 5 more played meaningful minutes, 12 redshirts, 4 went straight on missions, 1 busted, and 1 has yet to enroll (Moncur).

So in 2 recruiting classes, he's already had 20 players play significant minutes, and that list doesn't include many of the "can't miss" players (Reynolds, Lark, Bradley, Sorenson, Hansen, Hall, Buckner, and Hafoka), who sat out last year mainly because of missions.

03-01-2007, 08:25 PM	#1
jay santos Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 6,177	On KW Here's what happened with Kyle with 90% certainty: Kyle wanted the head job at BYU or Utah. With everything else being equal, he preferred BYU for the quality of the program, the church affiliation, and his history with the program. He preferred Utah due to his current bonds developed with players, coaches and boosters and also the location since his teenage kids were entrenched in their schools. Even with money equal, it would have been a hard decision, but my understanding is that he would have chosen BYU. He would have taken BYU's offer had he not had the counteroffer. But the lowball offer from BYU did make him question their commitment to him, especially when Utah's offer came and was so much higher. He also was concerned with the brethren's involvement and the non-football issues, i.e. honor code, and how much that would handcuff him to do his job. It was a tough decision for Kyle and he went with the U. Any one of a handful of issues could be named the one thing that swayed him: commitment to his players, not having to uproot his family, $, Honor Code issues at BYU, and instability of BYU admin especially AD position. I think it's lame to call KW a traitor. For rivalry smack I guess it's cool, but if you really believe that way and have hatred for Kyle, I think you're an idiot. Also, if you have "inside" info that KW either a) acted completely unethical in a way that BYU fans should hate him or b) think KW never cared for BYU and played them to get the Utah job he wanted all along, I also think you're an idiot.

03-02-2007, 12:21 PM	#8
DrumNFeather Active LDS Ute Fan Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Nantucket : ) Posts: 2,566	The other thing lost in this whole KW debate is the fact that BYU had 11 years to offer him a job of some kind if they wanted to and they never did. I agree that it was probably a tough decision for Kyle regardless of how long he'd been away, but there were numerous times during his 11 years at Utah that a move to DC at BYU wouldn't have been considered lateral. In the last few years it probably has evened out on that front, but during the time when fans wanted Ken Schmidt gone, I have a tough time thinking KW would have turned it down. You gotta give Crowton credit for one thing...he brought in his buddy and it worked out fairly well for the program. __________________ "It's not like we played the school of the blind out there." - Brian Johnson.

03-01-2007, 08:39 PM	#3
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	All I know is that it was Divine Intervention that got us Bronco instead of Kyle as our head coach.

03-01-2007, 08:48 PM	#5
UteStar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,817	There is a lot of Bronco love and it may be warranted...but it will be interesting to see how Bronco handles a still solid team that lost their main bigtime players. It is easy to look good for a year or two if you have your stars, it is much more difficult to do when they are gone and you are now the one on the line with your recruits and your coaching.

03-01-2007, 09:06 PM	#7
UteStar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,817	I guess we'll see next year. It is hard to know anything about recruiting till we actually see the results on the field. Yes, it appears that Bronco has recruited well...lets see how it turns out. I think he has done well with what he has had to work with so far. I am just saying, some very talented players (CB, Beck, Harline, etc.) can make any coach look good. I believe that Bronco could continue on and be a terrific coach...looks like he will get a chance to prove himself this upcoming year.

03-02-2007, 03:01 PM	#10
Insensitive PAP Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 293	We've already seen his recuiting results. He's had 2 recruiting classes and the following players have played from them. In 2005, he signed 19 players. 5 have already started, 8 more have played meaningful minutes, and will be competing for jobs this year, 4 went directly on missions, and 1 player left (to Boise State). In 2006, 25 players signed, 2 players started, 5 more played meaningful minutes, 12 redshirts, 4 went straight on missions, 1 busted, and 1 has yet to enroll (Moncur). So in 2 recruiting classes, he's already had 20 players play significant minutes, and that list doesn't include many of the "can't miss" players (Reynolds, Lark, Bradley, Sorenson, Hansen, Hall, Buckner, and Hafoka), who sat out last year mainly because of missions.