It's obvious some of you get a rush

[RockyBalboa]

From playing Devil's Advocate on just about any and everything.

But when it comes to evil radical Islamists....why anyone would is beyond rational comprehension.

[MikeWaters]

I don't dispute that evil radical Islam exists.

I'm not sure that we all agree what to do about it.

I'd prefer to seduce them with Walmart and McDonalds, rather than sending my son to die.

I operate under the premise that almost everyone wants a decent life, a good job, a little bit of savings, a few luxury items, etc. Not to mention freedom.

So if you want to battle radical Islam right now, not in the arena of thought, discourse, and argument, but with war, how exactly do you wage war against an ideology? Do you propose we attempt to kill the "hundreds of millions" now or later? I think Iraq has taught us that exterminating a determined guerilla force is pretty dang difficult.

We have muscles. But if we win, it will be with our brains.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't dispute that evil radical Islam exists.

I'm not sure that we all agree what to do about it.

I'd prefer to seduce them with Walmart and McDonalds, rather than sending my son to die.

I operate under the premise that almost everyone wants a decent life, a good job, a little bit of savings, a few luxury items, etc. Not to mention freedom.

So if you want to battle radical Islam right now, not in the arena of thought, discourse, and argument, but with war, how exactly do you wage war against an ideology? Do you propose we attempt to kill the "hundreds of millions" now or later? I think Iraq has taught us that exterminating a determined guerilla force is pretty dang difficult.

We have muscles. But if we win, it will be with our brains.

Mike,,they have declared war on us. Of that there is no doubt. You don't dispute it exists, but you seem to revel in playing Devil's Advocate on their behalf.

We can't just idly sit by and do nothing. We have to act before we're forced to react, and we're pretty much already in that position anyway.

How do you bring peace to a people's way of lifestyle,,how do you offer peace, when any contract, any accord, any handshake will never be worth crap, especially when you know the first chance thay have to slit your throat behind your back after you sign it...they'll do it.

What it will take for people to get this through their heads?

[MikeWaters]

I have my opinion. You have yours.

So what are you doing about all this? Does your view matter? Does mine?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't dispute that evil radical Islam exists.

I'm not sure that we all agree what to do about it.

I'd prefer to seduce them with Walmart and McDonalds, rather than sending my son to die.

I operate under the premise that almost everyone wants a decent life, a good job, a little bit of savings, a few luxury items, etc. Not to mention freedom.

So if you want to battle radical Islam right now, not in the arena of thought, discourse, and argument, but with war, how exactly do you wage war against an ideology? Do you propose we attempt to kill the "hundreds of millions" now or later? I think Iraq has taught us that exterminating a determined guerilla force is pretty dang difficult.

We have muscles. But if we win, it will be with our brains.

I think you are mixing concepts. First, you suggest we seduce them with materialism. This will not work, IMO, as this is precisely what they find most objectionable about our culture. They do not want your life. They reject yoir lifestyle.

I do agree, however, with the idea that if we are to win, it must be through our brains (IOW ideas). Unfortunately, I am not sure if the ideas inherent in our own culture (and I am sure SeattleU would opine much more eloquently than I on this notion) are sufficianetly embraced by our government and our people to be used in the battle of ideas. WalMart will not work; the Founding Fathers might. The question is how to assert these ideas in a way that saves the lives of our sons while still protecting our vital interests and security in the mean time.

Iraq is not a good analogy to the problem of radical Islam amd radicalized muslims. There are simply too many muslims that hate us and they are too deeply mixed with too many other people for us to ever hope to prevail in a traditional miltiary sense. Iraq will have to be dealt with on its own terms. Our approach to the larger problem presented by radical islam must be dealt with through other means.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I have my opinion. You have yours.

So what are you doing about all this? Does your view matter? Does mine?

Hell yes our views matter, but you're still not answering the question of why you're playing Devils Advocate on behalf of the extremists? If anything you're avoiding it.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Hell yes our views matter, but you're still not answering the question of why you're playing Devils Advocate on behalf of the extremists? If anything you're avoiding it.

you are sounding like charlie brown's teacher. why don't you tackle a specific sentence or paragraph I have written. I can't respond to charlie brown's teacher.

I also note that you have offered no solutions, nor have you proposed any actions other than I presume, everyone agreeing with you.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by creekster

I think you are mixing concepts. First, you suggest we seduce them with materialism. This will not work, IMO, as this is precisely what they find most objectionable about our culture. They do not want your life. They reject yoir lifestyle.

I do agree, however, with the idea that if we are to win, it must be through our brains (IOW ideas). Unfortunately, I am not sure if the ideas inherent in our own culture (and I am sure SeattleU would opine much more eloquently than I on this notion) are sufficianetly embraced by our government and our people to be used in the battle of ideas. WalMart will not work; the Founding Fathers might. The question is how to assert these ideas in a way that saves the lives of our sons while still protecting our vital interests and security in the mean time.

Iraq is not a good analogy to the problem of radical Islam amd radicalized muslims. There are simply too many muslims that hate us and they are too deeply mixed with too many other people for us to ever hope to prevail in a traditional miltiary sense. Iraq will have to be dealt with on its own terms. Our approach to the larger problem presented by radical islam must be dealt with through other means.

You have a misunderstanding of what will work.

I disagree that they do not want materialism.

I also disagree that democracy can exist in an uneducated, deprived society. We must have them develop a middle class, desire materialism and thereafter desire and obtain education in addition to individualism. Only that can make them wean themselves from the tit of terroisim.

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

you are sounding like charlie brown's teacher. why don't you tackle a specific sentence or paragraph I have written. I can't respond to charlie brown's teacher.

I also note that you have offered no solutions, nor have you proposed any actions other than I presume, everyone agreeing with you.

You still haven't answered the question.

My response is that we must continue to defend ourselves and if that means pre-emptive strikes on Hitler like regimes who's soul purpose and belief is that anyone who does not believe as them must be annhiliated,,then yeah I don't have a problem with that.

The exact strategem behind that,,I'm not sure.

How do you approach diplomacy with people who'd not have a 2nd thought about taking the pen you're about to sign with and stab you in the neck with it?

So are you going to answer why you play Devil's Advocate to Islamic terrorists or are you going to keep dodging it?

[RockyBalboa]

Originally Posted by Archaea

You have a misunderstanding of what will work.

I disagree that they do not want materialism.

I also disagree that democracy can exist in an uneducated, deprived society. We must have them develop a middle class, desire materialism and thereafter desire and obtain education in addition to individualism. Only that can make them wean themselves from the tit of terroisim.

Unfortunately they teach hate at the early stages of childhood in their schools and their textbooks.

It's pretty chilling to see a 3 year old girl saying she'd like to drink the blood of a Jew.