05-30-2006, 03:08 PM | #11 | |
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05-30-2006, 03:16 PM | #12 |
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fundamentally thid comes down to whether you see the 'church' as a social club or whether you see it as led by a prophet of God. At least, to me, that seems to be how the analysis is breaking in this discussion.
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05-30-2006, 03:25 PM | #13 | |
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You may continue to manufacture hypocrasy, I choose to move on. |
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05-30-2006, 03:27 PM | #14 |
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Oh now, manufacturing conspiracies and even demons is the work authors ... their purpose is money!
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05-30-2006, 03:46 PM | #15 | |
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I think you need to re-read many of the comments posted here thus far. I cannot pretend to speak for any others, but in my view, the church is led by a prophet, and I will follow the prophet when he speaks about matters important to my salvation. When he speaks about political mattters that are clearly not important to my salvation (if they were, this would be a temple recommend question and EVERY church member would be asked to write their representatives in every country asking for a constitutional amendment (or its equivalent wherever they live) I feel free to listen to what he says and come to a different conclusion. |
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05-30-2006, 03:58 PM | #16 | |
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I guess the only thing you can do is discern for yourself whether or not in this instance he is speaking as the voice of the Lord. Then it is no longer an issue of willingness to obey the prophet but a willingness to obey the Lord. |
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05-30-2006, 04:08 PM | #17 | |
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Is that an absolute statement about absolutes being dangerous? I would ask for a few examples of councils outside of the temple recommend questions that are "essential for my salvation." Last edited by Cali Coug; 05-30-2006 at 04:42 PM. |
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05-30-2006, 04:15 PM | #18 | |
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I continue to say, we all get to make whatever choices we want, that is free agency. I also know that it is possible to get so enamored of ones own ability to reason that you can talk yourself out of the need to obey almost anything. I know because I have done it many times. I think when we are cautioned about leaning on the arm of the flesh and our own understandings this is what is being talked about. When we are learned we think we are wise. I'm not saying this about you personally, I'm just saying that when you have well above average intelligence (and you obviously do as do many other around here including, I flatter myself to think, me) there is a very real temptation to believe that your ability to reason is so sharpe that it will always give the answer as to what you should do. Again, I know because this is a fight I fight all the time. As I said to someone in a boardmail the other day, a point came where I decided that there was a lot that I didn't understand and couldn't reason my way through. At that point I just had to make a choice whether I was going to "go and do" not necessarily understanding why, or whether I was going to murmur. I hope that I do the former more than the latter. I hope that you recieve what I am saying with the spirit I intend it which is mostly FYI. If it doesn't apply to you, forget I said it.
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05-30-2006, 04:17 PM | #19 | |
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05-30-2006, 04:23 PM | #20 | |
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