on Walmart

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by Solon

People can and do argue both sides of this issue.

I read a pretty interesting book last year - The Wal-Mart Effect by Charles Fishman (Penguin, 2006) that tackles some of them.

that guy's just a journalist.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Right, this is exactly what I was wondering. I've noticed in the past that Wal-Mart is almost like a old-time company store. They set the standard for low wages in the area, then people go pick up their walmart paychecks, have no choice but to line up at wal-mart to buy all their stuff for the week, load it up on their Wal-mart credit card with their 5% employee discount, and support the very institution that's in part keeping them impoverished with substandard wages.

I live in an town that has a large outlying area that is pretty rural and our super Walmart draws every single lower class country person of every race for miles and miles and miles. The vast majority of them don't work there. I think there is little question for them that cheaper groceries and other items are a net plus in their lives. My wife and I were snobby at first about shopping there until we were forced to one day and realized how much less expensive groceries are there (a lot less) and now that is where we go too.

I think it depends on where it is located. I can see how in a city or even a nice suburb those jobs are not very good. But in a small town with a lot of unskilled uneducated labor, that is actually a pretty good job for a lot of people. No question Walmart is a net plus in my small town, not least of all for the tax revenue it provides. Certainly it has hurt a few small store owners who it has put out of business.

[ChinoCoug]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I live in an town that has a large outlying area that is pretty rural and our super Walmart draws every single lower class country person of every race for miles and miles and miles. The vast majority of them don't work there. I think there is little question for them that cheaper groceries and other items are a net plus in their lives. My wife and I were snobby at first about shopping there until we were forced to one day and realized how much less expensive groceries are there (a lot less) and now that is where we go too.

I think it depends on where it is located. I can see how in a city or even a nice suburb those jobs are not very good. But in a small town with a lot of unskilled uneducated labor, that is actually a pretty good job for a lot of people. No question Walmart is a net plus in my small town, not least of all for the tax revenue it provides. Certainly it has hurt a few small store owners who it has put out of business.

dude there's so many fat people in Richmond. I was down there a couple of weeks ago. Rivals West Virginia. Goodness! I'm willing to bet it's rural America that's driving up national obesity rates. If we were to examine only metropolitan areas, we'd be more comparable to Europe.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I live in an town that has a large outlying area that is pretty rural and our super Walmart draws every single lower class country person of every race for miles and miles and miles. The vast majority of them don't work there. I think there is little question for them that cheaper groceries and other items are a net plus in their lives. My wife and I were snobby at first about shopping there until we were forced to one day and realized how much less expensive groceries are there (a lot less) and now that is where we go too.

I think it depends on where it is located. I can see how in a city or even a nice suburb those jobs are not very good. But in a small town with a lot of unskilled uneducated labor, that is actually a pretty good job for a lot of people. No question Walmart is a net plus in my small town, not least of all for the tax revenue it provides. Certainly it has hurt a few small store owners who it has put out of business.

I didn't mean to imply that they *all* work at Walmart. I meant that Walmart is so powerful it keeps the wages across the sector down, and all of those employees, regardless of employer, have no choice but to shop there.

It's interesting that you and your wife, and my husband and I, came to opposite conclusions. When we realized (1) what percentage of our budget was going directly to walmart (it was staggering) and (2) how absurdly low the prices were compared to the rest of the market and (3) what kind of business practices they're using, we decided to - as much as it's possible anymore in Oklahoma - discontinue shopping there. It's not worth the 10-15% savings to us.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

It's interesting that you and your wife, and my husband and I, came to opposite conclusions. When we realized (1) what percentage of our budget was going directly to walmart (it was staggering) and (2) how absurdly low the prices were compared to the rest of the market and (3) what kind of business practices they're using, we decided to - as much as it's possible anymore in Oklahoma - discontinue shopping there. It's not worth the 10-15% savings to us.

Well as I have to remind people sometimes, I am a Ute so that makes me morally inferior. I wouldn't say that much of our budget goes there. Just groceries. Baby supplies and most other things come from Target. Safeway for pharmacy goods. Also, and I am guessing here, but I doubt they can hold wages down where I live with a Target, Lowes, cabinet plant, uniform distribution center and other large employers of unskilled labor in town.

Maybe if I knew more about their business practices you could change my mind, but I have enough libertarian in me to think that people are making what they are worth and if their skills command a better wage then someone else will pay it to them. It is not as though Walmart has no competition, at least where I live.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

Well as I have to remind people sometimes, I am a Ute so that makes me morally inferior.

Right. I'll make a note of that. I actually didn't realize you were a Ute. That explains things. (just a joke) Besides, I'm married to a hippie. If there's any self-righteousness to be had. It's in hippiedom.

So, here's how it happened: we used to only have one credit card. We used it for everything and then we paid it off every month. Anyhow, so at the end of the year they sent us an itemized statement of how much we had spent at each retailer. It was mind-boggling.

It is not as though Walmart has no competition, at least where I live.

I live next door to Arkansas, and WalMart has shut out the competition. There's one on every corner. Albertsons pulled out of the state last year. So it's likely a different impact on the local economy than what your community sees.

[BarbaraGordon]

Incidentally, I didn't mean to imply there was a right or wrong to shopping at walmart. I just thought it was kinda funny that you guys went into it with a sort of preconception the place, and the prices won you over; whereas we were all "yay walmart" but ended up changing our minds. Maybe the Gordons are becoming snobs. That would explain it.

[MikeWaters]

honestly where we live, Wal-Mart is by far the closest. And if you drive a ways, you get to a place with less selection and higher prices.

I'd love to be in a place where Central Market (As Whole Foods is to Wal-Mart, Central Market is to Whole Foods) was something we could afford. But that would probably triple our food bill.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

honestly where we live, Wal-Mart is by far the closest.

Right, that's what I'm trying to point out. I'm not sure if it's the same out west. But where I live, Wal-Mart really is effectively the only option. You have to go out of your way (literally and figuratively) to shop anywhere else. And that started to freak us out. Wal-mart is great but do we really want it to be the only option? Not so much. and it's getting to be that way here. So we decided to start trying to support other retailers.

[YOhio]

Within a five minute drive from my house we have a Super Wal-Mart, Kroger, Target and Meijer. All of them have their advantages. When we want food where quality is essential, like produce or meat, we go to Kroger or Meijer. Where quality is independent of the store, like with boxed goods, we usually go to Wal-Mart for the price advantage. When I want popcorn to snack on while I shop, we go to Target.