I am curious- why no criticism of the people in the Midwest who live in flood plains? - Page 2 - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Cali Coug · 06-29-2008, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

This is what I sarcastically alluded to a few weeks ago as well. Cali didn't get it then either.

http://cougarguard.com/forum/showpos...56&postcount=8

One of us certainly doesn't get it.

SeattleUte · 06-29-2008, 11:19 PM

I thought the people who got flooded in Katrina were poor people who could only afford to live below sea level, by the levees.

ute4ever · 06-30-2008, 02:22 AM

Well here's a positive story that came from the flooding:

Many of the key buildings in Nauvoo are owned by the Community of Christ, including the Joseph Smith Mansion House, the Joseph Smith Brick Store, etc. They are located on the southwesternmost corner of Nauvoo, along the banks of the Mississippi River.

Last week, with the rising waters threatening those buildings, two dozen vacationing BYU young ambassadors, voluntarily spent the day sandbagging to protect those buildings.

View of the rear of Nauvoo House from the prophet's grave on 6/28, three days after cresting

Every June 27 on the anniversary of the martyrdom, the Community of Christ (the predominant religion in Nauvoo) holds a ceremony to honor the prophet, singing songs, reading poems, etc. This year, they were so thankful for the service of the young ambassadors, that they invited an LDS speaker to take part in the ceremony, making it a bi-faith commemoration.

Indy Coug · 06-30-2008, 09:09 AM

The difference is when you don't live below sea level, you actually can find higher ground so you don't die en masse when it floods. Unlike New Orleans.

At least God actually intended for most of the Mississippi flood plain to be dry land except for once every 15 to 100 years. Unlike New Orleans.

P.S. The Dutch are living on borrowed time.

il Padrino Ute · 06-30-2008, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

After Katrina, many people on this board lambasted those who lived in New Orleans for owning a house in a city that was susceptible to flooding and hurricanes. Several said we shouldn't even bother rebuilding.

Why no criticism for those in the Midwest now? The people who are losing their homes now are the same ones who lost them in 1993. Should the government help them?

And yes, I think the government clearly should help them. Just pointing out the clear hypocrisy that I am guessing was largely race driven.

Yes, those of us who are not bleeding heart liberals are racists. That has to be the answer.

That's an idiotic statement.

I was critical of those in NO who were warned in advance that the hurricane was approaching and severe damage was possible, but chose to ignore the warnings and stayed. The flooding in the midwest is not quite as predictable - and I'm sure you know that, but it counters your argument so you choose to ignore it.

myboynoah · 06-30-2008, 12:59 PM

I guess you just don't like the answers you're getting, Cali.

I don't remember a huge outcry here.

Some reasons for a very different response nationwide to the midwest flooding:

The flooded are not blaming everyone else for their plight.
Local government initial response is not to blame federal government.
The media is hyping local cooperation versus any blaming that might exist.
Local governments are better engaged and functioning in dealing with the disaster.
Better cooperation between local and federal governments.
Images of communities working hard to prepare for the potential disaster and then save their stuff plays better than a community saying "OK now, come save us."
Lack of break down in rule of law.
The New Orleans logistics problems are not there.
Most of the midwest flooding is farm land.
Significant differences in population densities (those affected).
Many of those flooded before learned and rebuilt above the flood plain, using the plain for farming.

New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen, and many had reported on that for years. The city had been lucky many times before. It's luck ran out. That they were so ill-prepared for the inevitable, and then abandoned all responsibility and started pointing fingers does not play well with outside observers.

Water from the Great Salt Lake "crushing" SLC homes after an earthquake? You need to bone up on your Utah geography. Makes me question your assertion that most Utahns don't have earthquake insurance. If they don't, I haven't much sympathy. I even have it here.

MikeWaters · 06-30-2008, 01:07 PM

and yet these same people when asked "why you are you defending Bush and the administration" will say "no we are not."

New Orleans was basically a 3rd world country. Most of you have no idea what New Orleans was like.

As if people in that kind of abject poverty, misery, and crime should be able to solve the problem of a major city being suddenly buried underwater.

I really don't get that kind of thinking.

But of course we are talking about rural whites from the West judging these people and condemning them, while at the same time praising rural whites in the midwest.

Indy Coug · 06-30-2008, 01:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

and yet these same people when asked "why you are you defending Bush and the administration" will say "no we are not."

New Orleans was basically a 3rd world country. Most of you have no idea what New Orleans was like.

As if people in that kind of abject poverty, misery, and crime should be able to solve the problem of a major city being suddenly buried underwater.

I really don't get that kind of thinking.

But of course we are talking about rural whites from the West judging these people and condemning them, while at the same time praising rural whites in the midwest.

Let's stop clouding the issue here. The reason why you don't hear the same outcries now as with Katrina is because the two situations are completely and utterly different, other than in the very broad sense that floodwater is causing suffering.

If Holland gets buried by seawater, you will hear plenty criticisms from me because they willingly exposed millions of lives to unbelievable apocalyptic disaster. Last I checked, Holland is neither a 3rd world country nor predominantly black.

Here's the historical precedent:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_Flood_of_1953

BigFatMeanie · 06-30-2008, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Outcry for what? The government is heavily mobilized and is working diligently in the Midwest. Compare that to the total ineptitude of the government in dealing with Katrina (at the federal, state and local levels). The lack of outrage in the Midwest isn't due to race, it is due to a lack of outrageous conduct.

At least you are consistent in saying they shouldn't rebuild in the Midwest either. I can't say that makes a whole lot of sense, though. Many of the people who have lost their homes and property are farmers who supply the nation with food and energy. It is in the country's best interest to have them living where they live.

Should the government help people in SLC if SLC is destroyed by an earthquake? Most there don't have earthquake insurance, despite the obvious risks.

How about in California which is being hammered by wildfires? Should the government assist?

What about Florida and Texas when the hurricanes come (and they will)?

Every region in this country has risk associated with living in it. Everyone can be harmed, and most cannot possibly protect against that harm adequately with insurance. The role of the government in such instances is to provide the assistance it can provide to the people in need. Everyone bears the burden because everyone stands to benefit from the government's assistance at some point or other.

SLC - no
CA - no
FL,TX - no

Life is tough.

MikeWaters · 06-30-2008, 01:23 PM

How many of those in the midwest affected by the flooding don't own a vehicle? Versus the numerous poor in N.O. who didn't own a vehicle and in fact had never been out of N.O.?

It's hard to comprehend poverty in inner cities if you haven't seen it up close. And N.O. was the poorest city of all large cities in the USA.

It' like the kid I took to father & son's campout this spring. I was amazed when he saw a cow and said he had never seen one before. He lives in cattle country and has never seen a cow. What that tells me is that he has probably never been 20 miles from his home. And his family owns a vehcile.

06-29-2008, 11:19 PM	#12
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	I thought the people who got flooded in Katrina were poor people who could only afford to live below sea level, by the levees. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

06-30-2008, 09:09 AM	#14
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	The difference is when you don't live below sea level, you actually can find higher ground so you don't die en masse when it floods. Unlike New Orleans. At least God actually intended for most of the Mississippi flood plain to be dry land except for once every 15 to 100 years. Unlike New Orleans. P.S. The Dutch are living on borrowed time. Last edited by Indy Coug; 06-30-2008 at 12:27 PM.

06-30-2008, 12:59 PM	#16
myboynoah Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Memphis freakin' Tennessee!!!!! Posts: 4,530	I guess you just don't like the answers you're getting, Cali. I don't remember a huge outcry here. Some reasons for a very different response nationwide to the midwest flooding: The flooded are not blaming everyone else for their plight. Local government initial response is not to blame federal government. The media is hyping local cooperation versus any blaming that might exist. Local governments are better engaged and functioning in dealing with the disaster. Better cooperation between local and federal governments. Images of communities working hard to prepare for the potential disaster and then save their stuff plays better than a community saying "OK now, come save us." Lack of break down in rule of law. The New Orleans logistics problems are not there. Most of the midwest flooding is farm land. Significant differences in population densities (those affected). Many of those flooded before learned and rebuilt above the flood plain, using the plain for farming. New Orleans was a disaster waiting to happen, and many had reported on that for years. The city had been lucky many times before. It's luck ran out. That they were so ill-prepared for the inevitable, and then abandoned all responsibility and started pointing fingers does not play well with outside observers. Water from the Great Salt Lake "crushing" SLC homes after an earthquake? You need to bone up on your Utah geography. Makes me question your assertion that most Utahns don't have earthquake insurance. If they don't, I haven't much sympathy. I even have it here. __________________ Give 'em Hell, Cougars!!! Religion rises inevitably from our apprehension of our own death. To give meaning to meaninglessness is the endless quest of all religion. When death becomes the center of our consciousness, then religion authentically begins. Of all religions that I know, the one that most vehemently and persuasively defies and denies the reality of death is the original Mormonism of the Prophet, Seer and Revelator, Joseph Smith.

06-30-2008, 02:22 AM	#13
ute4ever I must not tell lies Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 5,103	Well here's a positive story that came from the flooding: Many of the key buildings in Nauvoo are owned by the Community of Christ, including the Joseph Smith Mansion House, the Joseph Smith Brick Store, etc. They are located on the southwesternmost corner of Nauvoo, along the banks of the Mississippi River. Last week, with the rising waters threatening those buildings, two dozen vacationing BYU young ambassadors, voluntarily spent the day sandbagging to protect those buildings. View of the rear of Nauvoo House from the prophet's grave on 6/28, three days after cresting Every June 27 on the anniversary of the martyrdom, the Community of Christ (the predominant religion in Nauvoo) holds a ceremony to honor the prophet, singing songs, reading poems, etc. This year, they were so thankful for the service of the young ambassadors, that they invited an LDS speaker to take part in the ceremony, making it a bi-faith commemoration.

06-30-2008, 01:07 PM	#17
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	and yet these same people when asked "why you are you defending Bush and the administration" will say "no we are not." New Orleans was basically a 3rd world country. Most of you have no idea what New Orleans was like. As if people in that kind of abject poverty, misery, and crime should be able to solve the problem of a major city being suddenly buried underwater. I really don't get that kind of thinking. But of course we are talking about rural whites from the West judging these people and condemning them, while at the same time praising rural whites in the midwest.

06-30-2008, 01:23 PM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	How many of those in the midwest affected by the flooding don't own a vehicle? Versus the numerous poor in N.O. who didn't own a vehicle and in fact had never been out of N.O.? It's hard to comprehend poverty in inner cities if you haven't seen it up close. And N.O. was the poorest city of all large cities in the USA. It' like the kid I took to father & son's campout this spring. I was amazed when he saw a cow and said he had never seen one before. He lives in cattle country and has never seen a cow. What that tells me is that he has probably never been 20 miles from his home. And his family owns a vehcile.