California....Vanguard of Civil Rights

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

What does this mean? It seems like nothing more than a platitude.

How does it lessen the value of a marriage?

If two guys get married in San Diego, the value of your marriage is lessened? How? Gay people in other countries can marry. Are you saying that heterosexual marriages in those countries are less valid or meaningful? Makes no sense, unless I am missing some huge point.

Yes, you are missing a huge point. The argument could be: Many people believe homosexuality is evil. Recognizing such behavior by allowing it to participate in the institution of marriage is going to cheapen the value of said institution. Furthermore, many people believe marriage was instituted by God, and they want to protect it from an homosexuality.

I'm not saying I agree 100% with the above, but the argument should be obvious to any Church member.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Yes, you are missing a huge point. The argument could be: Many people believe homosexuality is evil. Recognizing such behavior by allowing it to participate in the institution of marriage is going to cheapen the value of said institution. Furthermore, many people believe marriage was instituted by God, and they want to protect it from an homosexuality.

I'm not saying I agree 100% with the above, but the argument should be obvious to any Church member.

The Church lets sinners be members.

It doesnt cheapen the institution.

You still do not explain HOW the value is cheapened. You just keep repeating that it would. walk me through your marriage, specifically. How does the value drop after gay marriage is legalized?

Marriage will not be affected, so no, I still dont see the point.

All of your reasons (not yours personally but the ones you provided) simply seem to reflect homophobia, not much else. There is no rationale to it.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

What increase in benefits would there be?

"California already offers same-sex couples who register as domestic partners the same legal rights and responsibilities as married spouses, including the right to divorce and to sue for child support."

My mistake - I wasn't clear.

I should have stated that the number of recipients of benefits would increase.

[ute4ever]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I'll bet the food at a gay wedding would be incredible.

Why do you say that? My gay associates are some of the most slender people I know. I picture fruit (no pun), cheese and crackers, and lots of wine. Crates and crates of wine.

[landpoke]

Originally Posted by ute4ever

Why do you say that? My gay associates are some of the most slender people I know. I picture fruit (no pun), cheese and crackers, and lots of wine. Crates and crates of wine.

Another more horrific scenario would involve a gay couple into 70's kitsch. While the pigs-in-a-blanket would be ok, the exotic jello molds would put off all but the most hard-core Utah Mormon.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The Church lets sinners be members.

Not unrepentant people engaging in homosexual relations.

It doesnt cheapen the institution.

I heard you the first time, and it is still a matter of opinion.

You still do not explain HOW the value is cheapened. You just keep repeating that it would. walk me through your marriage, specifically. How does the value drop after gay marriage is legalized?

Marriage will not be affected, so no, I still dont see the point.

All of your reasons (not yours personally but the ones you provided) simply seem to reflect homophobia, not much else. There is no rationale to it.

The rationale is simple. It's as if the standards were lowered for something after you have achieved a previous, higher standard. For example, if the requirements for getting an M.D. were suddenly made easier, some existing M.D.s may be opposed to that.

Marriage will not be affected? It is very much affected in the sense that the definition is changing.

[Coach McGuirk]

It should affect those of the LDS persuasion even less. As we do not have civil unions but everlasting covenants. How does this cheapen your temple marriage?

[Venkman]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

The Church lets sinners be members.

It doesnt cheapen the institution.

You still do not explain HOW the value is cheapened. You just keep repeating that it would. walk me through your marriage, specifically. How does the value drop after gay marriage is legalized?

Marriage will not be affected, so no, I still dont see the point.

All of your reasons (not yours personally but the ones you provided) simply seem to reflect homophobia, not much else. There is no rationale to it.

This issue has been hashed over and over and I have walked through how it would cheapen the value of marriage. I'm not going to restate it, but the writings of Stanley Kurtz re: gay marriage in Scandinavia make sense to me. You disagree, fine. But it's more complex than dismissing it as purely homophobia.

[Mars]

Homosexuality is harmful to the individual. The more homosexuality is accepted in society and government, the more it is practiced by an increasing amount of individuals, who are then harmed by that destructive and irrational lifestyle. The largest negative effect this will have is by further confusing and misleading the children of California and America to go down dangerous life paths. THAT is why Christian groups oppose pro-gay legislation, because of the corrupting effect they have on society and the overall quality of life. Just look at the suicide and abuse levels, let alone the parenting issues.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Do you hate Brown v. Board of Education? Did you hate it when federal courts enjoined Governor Wallace's brownshirts from obstructing blacks from the University of Alabama? Sometimes the courts have to intervene when the majority infringes basic liberties. That's their most important function and why federal judges are appointed and not elected. Not a perfect system, though, grant you. But it's the best there is and history shows could possibly be.

Well put.