Why scouting fails in LDS troops (compared to non-LDS troops)

[MikeWaters]

While the church has had long continuity with the scouting program, in
the sense that the church has been doing scouting for these many
decades, the primary problem, IMO, is actually continuity at the level
of the individual.

1. We ask adults who don't want to be scout leaders, to be scout
leaders. In other words, we don't get qualified capable volunteers
like non-LDS troops. We call people. Is there anyone less effective
than someone who doesn't want to be there? Is there anything worse
than having an ASM called, who immediately lets it be known that he
will only rarely be available and shows zero initiative? I've been
blessed with great colleagues. But perhaps something some of you can
relate to: over 2 years we have gone camping every month except once
(canceled due to ice storm). I've only begged off for one campout (the
one that was canceled it turned out). But every other adult has told
me that they can't come many multiple times. Sometimes canceling at
the last minute, other plans, out of town, etc. It's a matter of
priorities. I'm just as busy as these brethren, but I've made it more
of a priority. Again, I am not criticizing, I am merely observing.

2. We do scouts at the ward level. Wards often have poor continuity
in the sense that people move in and out. There have probably been 5
scoutmasters in my ward in the past seven or eight years who no longer
are in my ward.

3. Even if you grew up in a strong troop, that doesn't translate into
institutional knowledge. I grew up in a great troop. We were a
full-uniformed well-oiled machine. Fast forward many years and I am
called as SM after having not had any interaction with scouting since
being a kid. I want to make my troop like my old one. I say "we need
full uniforms". I tell everyone. And then it doesn't happen. Many
things that I tried to make happen weren't happening. Well, come to
find out that my SM wasn't doing all the work. He had a strong,
functioning committee. He had well-off members in the ward who were
financially supporting the program, helping kids get uniforms and
things like that. He had the entire ward behind the program. Nobody
explained to me when I was a kid how the operation worked. It just
worked. From my perspective as a kid, things just happened. I didn't
know how they happened. And now as an adult, I've found making those
things happen to be very difficult. Changing an entire scouting
culture in a ward where people move in and out and where SMs average
just 1 year.

4. When someone is called into scouting, they know it is temporary.
Why invest in a lot of training for something that is temporary?
Non-LDS may see it as a lifestyle, or at least a 10 year investment as
their kids grow up in the troops. Me? I serve at the whim of my
Bishop. Even if I love my calling as SM and serve with all my might, I
know the rug can be pulled out at any second. And I know I may never
have any calling in scouting again, even if I am good at it and highly
motivated. That's not how it works for non-LDS.

5. Wouldn't it be interesting if scout committees were actually
empowered to select/call (under the Bishop's permission and keys)
scoutmasters and assistant scoutmasters? SM responsible to the
committee. That's how it works for non-LDS. Not how it works for LDS.
The SM responds to the Bishop and YM President. We had a brother in
our stake who did a real bang-up job as SM, really turned around things
and was a great example for new SMs like myself. Now he has moved to a
different state. And the idea of him having no scouting calling in the
church is a tragedy. Wasted talent. He will volunteer in a district
and end up serving non-LDS scouts if he isn't called into scouting.

6. The church has great members who are doing great work in scouting.
It's just that the way things are set up, the chips are stacked against
them. As long as the current structure holds, we will always have
relatively poorly trained leaders with little tenure.

[minn_stat]

On the other hand, I was a scout as kid, and had a good time. But I haven't had any real involvement with scouting since then, and not really very interested in doing so. A year and a half ago, I was called as the 11 year old scout leader (the fracturing of the already small scout troops in most wards is another topic of discussion). I accepted the calling, but not too enthusiastically. Since then, I've gotten much more excited and involved, and now am hoping that the bishop forgets that about my status and my position.

So although I see and largely agree with your points, it can work in positive ways at times. I've also noticed that in most wards I've seen, there is a tendency to leave good scout leaders alone for a looooong time, once they are found. For example, my brother spent 8 years as scout master - he had several groups of his ex-scouts come off missions and organize a camping or backpacking trip with him.

Now he's a bishop, and his five year stint is about up... shorter than his scoutmaster stint.

[enigma]

Here's my take:

I've served as scoutmaster in a ward with a few youth, many married college students with or without children and few older families in the ward. I'm going on year 3 serving as scoutmaster. Previously I served as scoutmaster for 1 year. Both of these times I've also been in the YM's presidency as the second counselor.

In the ward I'm currently there was a stakewide realignment reorganizing the boundaries of 6 wards to balance out percentages of different types of members. This added youth to our ward and more families. I was released as YM2 but retained calling as scoutmaster. I enjoy working with the youth, so no biggie for me. The bishopric did this knowing that I will not be able to fulfill my calling starting in May because I will be travelling 1.5 hrs each way to work for an externship. The externship involves Saturday work as well.

Suddenly, I became very busy. Luckily I am in a ward where the parents of the YM (YM pres, Bishop, SC chairperson, counselors) are all involved in scouting. There have been 2 campouts so far this year (both) I haven't been able to attend. The leaders are supportive of me not going because they have no choice- 4 weddings in 3 months, 2 all day at school events, etc.

They have looked at options to replace me, but they are realizing the pool in too thin to choose from, and I won't be able to do it. The answer? the 2nd counselor in YM presidency will be the one doing it, and his plate is already much too full. This causes problems once again because one person is pulling too much of his weight.

I agree with much of the above post. Most younger adults I know dis-like the scouting program being tied to the church, mainly because it wasn't 'hip' or 'in' when they did scouting. There are few my age (27) that dare get involved in the program.

Scouting in the church needs to be looked at and examined and things do need changing if it is to work at a churchwide as it does in well done troops. Many of MW's suggestions are good ones.

[DrumNFeather]

My bishop gave us a pretty good rant on scouts (cub) in WC the other day. His point was that the scouts as an organization make it nearly impossible for smaller troops with less volunteers to succeed because they've nearly doubled the amount of work required of the scouts and the volunteer parents participating.

[UteStar]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

While the church has had long continuity with the scouting program, in
the sense that the church has been doing scouting for these many
decades, the primary problem, IMO, is actually continuity at the level
of the individual.

1. We ask adults who don't want to be scout leaders, to be scout
leaders. In other words, we don't get qualified capable volunteers
like non-LDS troops. We call people. Is there anyone less effective
than someone who doesn't want to be there? Is there anything worse
than having an ASM called, who immediately lets it be known that he
will only rarely be available and shows zero initiative? I've been
blessed with great colleagues. But perhaps something some of you can
relate to: over 2 years we have gone camping every month except once
(canceled due to ice storm). I've only begged off for one campout (the
one that was canceled it turned out). But every other adult has told
me that they can't come many multiple times. Sometimes canceling at
the last minute, other plans, out of town, etc. It's a matter of
priorities. I'm just as busy as these brethren, but I've made it more
of a priority. Again, I am not criticizing, I am merely observing.

I find this to be a HUGE problem. In one of my first wards, they put me in the YM presidency and my responsibility was as an Assistant Scoutmaster. I didn't want it all and had zero interest. The 2nd counselor in the YM did duty to god and wanted scouts. So, I told him that we could trade. I then went to my Bishop (who was a great guy) and told him that we would like to switch responsibilities. He laughed and said sure.

Problem is, too many guys are put into running scouts that have no interest. Why not find the guys that love it and want to run with it? Its too bad.

[enigma]

in addition, the sheer number of meetings that the church has make it harder to plan times to go out. every weekend in april and may sometime else is planned, luckily one is father and sons

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by enigma

in addition, the sheer number of meetings that the church has make it harder to plan times to go out. every weekend in april and may sometime else is planned, luckily one is father and sons

Nothing comes before scout camping. Everything else must be arranged around it.

[enigma]

thats not what the stake president said.

4 saturdays in April-> not to do it on the first because of general conference and specifically preisthood session later on
next saturday-> priesthood training for young men
Next saturday-> stake womens conference in the morning. fathers to stay home and watch children, which affects all families but one.
last saturday-> primary activity day(morning, once again affects all families but one) stake conference with leadership meeting at 2 for bishopric, ym pres, eqp and hpgl(which is the rest of adults)

[bYuPride]

so why don't church leaders put people in scouting that have the experience, or in my case the motivation to do a good job?

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by bYuPride

so why don't church leaders put people in scouting that have the experience, or in my case the motivation to do a good job?

Our stake needs a good Scout Master. Should I put in the good word for you to President Perry?