Blacks, apologies, and reparations

[Tex]

I do not understand the fixation some people in the black "community" have with getting a formal apology for slavery. It's a wholly emotionally-driven idea. I've never heard any person, black or otherwise, offer a sensible rationale for it other than to soothe the egos of people who never had to endure it. I'm not sure there's even anyone left alive who's grandparents had to endure it. Maybe a handful.

I can think of few reasons to oppose it. Setting aside the "slippery slope" argument that it raises, which is legitimate, I don't like the idea of my government apologizing for personal reasons. I don't feel any personal responsibility for slavery. None. I didn't participate in it, I didn't support it, and I think it is a black mark on American history. As far as I'm concerned it's one of the most un-American activities our country ever participated in.

"They aren't asking you to apologize, Tex." Oh, but they are. My government represents me. When the American government does something at home or abroad, it reflects on me. You can pepper your car with "Don't Blame Me, I Vote Gore" stickers, but Bush is still your president. So was Clinton. Does everything my gov't do reflect my will? Obviously not. But such an apology would be issued on behalf of the American people, make no mistake. I don't feel any personal culpability, so I feel no need to personally apologize. Why, because I'm white?

"They just want some closure, Tex. Some recognition for what they've suffered." They didn't suffer slavery. Some of their ancestors did. And if you can find me someone who is alive who suffered American slavery, then THEY are owed an apology, and probably financial renumeration too. No? How about some of their children? That's right ... they are all dead, and so are their oppressors. (So are their liberators, for that matter.) Now there is still some political fallout from slavery that we live with today. And that needs to be addressed, and should be. But slavery? Doesn't exist. No one today has ever been an American slave.

Perhaps the biggest reason I oppose a formal apology is because it just enhances the racist powerbrokers today. It reminds everyone of the severe racial tensions of the past at a time when we need them forgotten. It doesn't heal wounds, it re-opens them. Will an apology from my gov't create fresh good will toward the average black man I meet on the street? No. From him to me? No. In fact, it could increase animus as indeed the very discussion of the idea already has.

It's not necessary. It's not rational. And I don't understand the obsession.

*Cue "Tex you're not black, so you couldn't possibly understand" posts.

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=3540903

[exUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

I do not understand the fixation some people in the black "community" have with getting a formal apology for slavery. It's a wholly emotionally-driven idea. I've never heard any person, black or otherwise, offer a sensible rationale for it other than to soothe the egos of people who never had to endure it. I'm not sure there's even anyone left alive who's grandparents had to endure it. Maybe a handful.

I can think of few reasons to oppose it. Setting aside the "slippery slope" argument that it raises, which is legitimate, I don't like the idea of my government apologizing for personal reasons. I don't feel any personal responsibility for slavery. None. I didn't participate in it, I didn't support it, and I think it is a black mark on American history. As far as I'm concerned it's one of the most un-American activities our country ever participated in.

"They aren't asking you to apologize, Tex." Oh, but they are. My government represents me. When the American government does something at home or abroad, it reflects on me. You can pepper your car with "Don't Blame Me, I Vote Gore" stickers, but Bush is still your president. So was Clinton. Does everything my gov't do reflect my will? Obviously not. But such an apology would be issued on behalf of the American people, make no mistake. I don't feel any personal culpability, so I feel no need to personally apologize. Why, because I'm white?

"They just want some closure, Tex. Some recognition for what they've suffered." They didn't suffer slavery. Some of their ancestors did. And if you can find me someone who is alive who suffered American slavery, then THEY are owed an apology, and probably financial renumeration too. No? How about some of their children? That's right ... they are all dead, and so are their oppressors. (So are their liberators, for that matter.) Now there is still some political fallout from slavery that we live with today. And that needs to be addressed, and should be. But slavery? Doesn't exist. No one today has ever been an American slave.

Perhaps the biggest reason I oppose a formal apology is because it just enhances the racist powerbrokers today. It reminds everyone of the severe racial tensions of the past at a time when we need them forgotten. It doesn't heal wounds, it re-opens them. Will an apology from my gov't create fresh good will toward the average black man I meet on the street? No. From him to me? No. In fact, it could increase animus as indeed the very discussion of the idea already has.

It's not necessary. It's not rational. And I don't understand the obsession.

*Cue "Tex you're not black, so you couldn't possibly understand" posts.

http://www.cougarboard.com/noframes/...tml?id=3540903

of reparations. Harkin cleverly mentions that his bill does not address reparations. No kidding. But then reparations are not far behind. If you read past musings of the black caucus, they specifically tie the two topics.

[JohnnyLingo]

As bad as slavery was (and it was horrible), those descendants of slaves have it many, many times better here than they would if they were still in Africa.

Liberia was set up as a country for those stolen from their homeland to return to. Anyone who feels they still belong in Africa is free to move there.

What's that? They'd rather stay in America? Hmmm.

[exUte]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

As bad as slavery was (and it was horrible), those descendants of slaves have it many, many times better here than they would if they were still in Africa.

Liberia was set up as a country for those stolen from their homeland to return to. Anyone who feels they still belong in Africa is free to move there.

What's that? They'd rather stay in America? Hmmm.

is going on in Africa today. Which would the AA prefer? Plus weren't blacks sold into slavery by other blacks?

[jay santos]

If an apology is a step towards reperations, maybe an "FU, you deserved it!" would help solidify the case against reperations.

[MikeWaters]

What do you think of the govt. apologizing to the American citizens of Japanese ancestry who were put in concentration camps, and lost their homes and land, during WWII?

Or the govt. conducting damaging scientific experiments that harmed the participants (who did not give informed consent) and neighboring people?

Of all people, I would think that you Tex would believe in responsibility for your actions.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

As bad as slavery was (and it was horrible), those descendants of slaves have it many, many times better here than they would if they were still in Africa.

Liberia was set up as a country for those stolen from their homeland to return to. Anyone who feels they still belong in Africa is free to move there.

What's that? They'd rather stay in America? Hmmm.

I love the "we did you a favor" argument that you are making here. You are making your mentor very proud.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by exUte

is going on in Africa today. Which would the AA prefer? Plus weren't blacks sold into slavery by other blacks?

Yes they were.

Maybe they should demand an apology from the Congolese and Kenyans who sold their forefathers into slavery.

And as usual, Mike adds nothing to the conversation. For someone who's supposedly a doctor and all, you embarrass yourself quite often, Waters.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What do you think of the govt. apologizing to the American citizens of Japanese ancestry who were put in concentration camps, and lost their homes and land, during WWII?

Or the govt. conducting damaging scientific experiments that harmed the participants (who did not give informed consent) and neighboring people?

Of all people, I would think that you Tex would believe in responsibility for your actions.

I may be mistaken, but I believe there are many, many people alive who were participants, either as adults or children, in the Japanese internment camps. Depending on the terms, I would support an apology and reparations for them. Fast forward 100 years to their grandchildren's grandchildren, and I would feel differently.

Your second example is too vague.

As for your third statement, I feel no personal responsibility for either of those incidents.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I may be mistaken, but I believe there are many, many people alive who were participants, either as adults or children, in the Japanese internment camps. Depending on the terms, I would support an apology and reparations for them. Fast forward 100 years to their grandchildren's grandchildren, and I would feel differently.

Your second example is too vague.

As for your third statement, I feel no personal responsibility for either of those incidents.

you feel no personal responsibility, but might support an apology.

how is this different than slavery?