National Health Care

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I just wanted to see what it felt like to misconstrue someone else's statements, ala The Big Leb.

Kinda nice.



I'm gonna have to guess Triple D is trolling here. 95% of what he says is completely disingenuous; I think this is just par for the course.

I watched Fahrenheit 9-11 and it's a bunch of crap. There are countless examples of flat-out lies and even more times when Moore ignores evidence that doesn't support his twisted view of the world.

If he wants to make movies that promote his agenda, fine.

But people who think he's going out to find the truth about controversial issues are up in the night.

95%? Is this the kind of personal agenda spin of which you accuse MM?

There is a difference between sarcasm and insincerity. I am sarcastic, not insincere.

Although I can be a master at both when I want to be. For example, "Lingo, you are really cool and really funny."

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by woot

I figure it's common knowledge that MM makes editorials, not objective documentaries. That doesn't make them any less effective for what they are. He's no more dishonest than any of the blowhards that do tv/radio/newspaper op-eds; he just chooses a different medium.

You'd be surprised how many people I've met online or otherwise who think Moore is a knight in shining armor, uncovering the truth for the masses.

[JohnnyLingo]

Let me put this another way. The reason I posted my anecdotal evidence is that I would genuinely like to hear what others have encountered when discussing the issue with Canadians. Including you, Lingo.

While I know a few Canadians, I've never discussed health care with them.

Maybe I should.

[TripletDaddy]

To your 9-11 point, of course this movie seemed anti-GWB. It WAS anti-GWB. It was never advertised as anything else. Did you expect it to be pro-GWB?

Movies like Bowling, Roger & Me, Sicko, and The Big One are typically attacked for being anti-Republican. My point is that upon even a cursory viewing, it is plain that MM attacks both sides. These editorials are not the anti-conservative exposes they are made out to be.

If you didnt like GWB criticism in 9-11, you may want to skip Captain Mike Across America, his newest one coming out later this year.

Perhaps someone on the conservative right should make a pro GWB documentary to point out all the wonderful things he has accomplished while in office. It will be sort of a "Profiles in Courage" type piece, I am sure.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

You'd be surprised how many people I've met online or otherwise who think Moore is a knight in shining armor, uncovering the truth for the masses.

You are right, I would be surprised. Don't you live in Utah? Who have you met there that thinks that?

Most people I know think MM is interesting, but nothing more. His personal agendas are plain to see and, ultimately, he is in the business of selling tickets to his movies.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

To your 9-11 point, of course this movie seemed anti-GWB. It WAS anti-GWB. It was never advertised as anything else. Did you expect it to be pro-GWB?

Movies like Bowling, Roger & Me, Sicko, and The Big One are typically attacked for being anti-Republican. My point is that upon even a cursory viewing, it is plain that MM attacks both sides. These editorials are not the anti-conservative exposes they are made out to be.

If you didnt like GWB criticism in 9-11, you may want to skip Captain Mike Across America, his newest one coming out later this year.

Perhaps someone on the conservative right should make a pro GWB documentary to point out all the wonderful things he has accomplished while in office. It will be sort of a "Profiles in Courage" type piece, I am sure.

I never said anything about GWB. Can't you read?

Also, I live in Idaho.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

I never said anything about GWB. Can't you read?

Also, I live in Idaho.

Idaho? Ok, then I a really am not surprised that you have met a lot of people who hold Michael Moore in high regard. I would imagine that he is a cult figure of sorts out there.

What part of 9-11 did you not like? When he was asking congressmen to send their kids to Iraq? Or when he documented how many days W was on vacation or at Crawford Ranch pulling weeds or driving his golf cart around?

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

What part of 9-11 did you not like? When he was asking congressmen to send their kids to Iraq? Or when he documented how many days W was on vacation or at Crawford Ranch pulling weeds or driving his golf cart around?

Here are a couple:

Fahrenheit deceptively cut the footage of Rep. Mark Kennedy to make it look like Kennedy rebuffed Moore’s request to help enlist Congressional children. In fact, Kennedy said it was a good idea, and offered to help.

Fahrenheit shows Rep. Michael Castle walking past Moore. But Rep. Castle is childless.

Mostly from here.

It's not that Moore doesn't have good points... he's just incapable of portraying these points without resorting to outright deception.

EDIT:

I think the main reason I dislike Moore is that I attended his speaking engagement at UVSC in 2004. I was expecting him to go over some points from Fahrenheit 9/11 or something, but that's not exactly what we got.

First, he kept the crowd waiting 50 minutes past the originally scheduled start time because he had a press conference. When he finally did show up, all he did was bash Bush's stuttering (highly original), rip on Utah for ignoring the Bill of Rights, and praise UVSC's student government for being "courageous". No discussion of issues... he instead decided to pull the race card and insinuate that all Republicans are racist.

Unimpressive.

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Idaho? Ok, then I a really am not surprised that you have met a lot of people who hold Michael Moore in high regard. I would imagine that he is a cult figure of sorts out there.

Rexburg, no less. A hotbed of liberal activism.

[hyrum]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

As for the Canadian system, for as long as I can remember I have heard Americans say "Socialized medicine is awful in Canada - people die waiting for operations due to equipment and doctor shortages." However, I have known lots of Canadians and I have yet to meet a single one that had anything bad to say about the health care system. Without exception, they have all been passionate advocates. Maybe I just haven't met the right people. Furthermore, it seems that there are far more Americans dying off due to lack of access to health care. Thousands of poor and uninsured die each year in the US due to the prohibitive cost of cancer treatments, heart surgery, etc. And Canadians and Brits are far healthier than we are in the US, on average. That could have multiple explanations, but it makes one think.

I can point you to places where you can read about people waiting in pain for a joint replacement because its considered "elective" surgery. Also there are new techniques and materials but they only pay for "your grandfather's" joint replacement, not the new materials (e.g. metal or ceramic vs plastic). Some of them have been going to India for it. This is not to say there aren't similar problems in America with insurance coverage issues of the same nature.