Obama looking to storm through to the White House!!!!!

[FMCoug]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

No kidding. Helping people sucks.

Ah, the lefty utopian view. Never mind that it has to be paid for. It's about compassion and "helping pople".

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by woot

They produce more research per capita, they don't bomb and occupy other countries, they don't torture people, they don't keep their people in constant fear of terrorism, their people are much healthier and live longer, etc.

I won't ever argue that our experiment in capitalism is not an outrageous success in economic terms, but there are other costs, and the current furor in response to 9/11 has done much to reduce our position in the world.

France doesn't bomb and occupy other countries because they would get their asses kicked. Bonaparte hasn't been in charge there for a long time.

They're not afraid of terrorists because they're too big of pussies to stand up to them and would gladly kiss whichever terrorist organization wanted to take over their country.

[woot]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Yawn.

I'm tired of people like you wanting me to pay more taxes to provide for others.

I have an idea that those of you who support national health care should like:

You pay more taxes. If it's not enough, then you pay even more to make up for those of us who don't want to do it. And those of us who don't want to pay will not be able to benefit from national health care, but continue to pay for private health care.

Let's say it takes an average of $2500 a year in taxes to provide national health care. How about you pay $5000 so I don't have to? That way, the money will be there. In fact, if everyone who claims to think it's such a great idea payed double the amount required, there would be even more money for socialized medicine.

Sound good? Or are you not willing to do your part to take care of others?

We pay double the amount per capita of any other country, including the many who have better healthcare systems. The spectre of raising taxes is bogus. I do think that the next president will have to raise taxes in order to try to overcome Bush's prodigal spending, but that will happen regardless of healthcare.

It comes down to this: We all agree that the government should provide certain basic services to its citizens. That you think that healthcare shouldn't be included in that doesn't make you less of a socialist than someone who does. It's only a matter of priorities.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

Yawn.

I'm tired of people like you wanting me to pay more taxes to provide for others.

I have an idea that those of you who support national health care should like:

You pay more taxes. If it's not enough, then you pay even more to make up for those of us who don't want to do it. And those of us who don't want to pay will not be able to benefit from national health care, but continue to pay for private health care.

Let's say it takes an average of $2500 a year in taxes to provide national health care. How about you pay $5000 so I don't have to? That way, the money will be there. In fact, if everyone who claims to think it's such a great idea payed double the amount required, there would be even more money for socialized medicine.

Sound good? Or are you not willing to do your part to take care of others?

No kidding. That is what I tell my bishop every year too. I don't have to pay any tithing, because if those people really need help, the bishop will just double my payment. If he refuses, then I know he doesn't really care about helping people.

[woot]

Originally Posted by BYU71

Yea and there country is run over time and time again and someone has to bail them out.

If we were a small country in the middle of a bunch of others that would be true for us as well. That's an irrelevant argument.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by FMCoug

Ah, the lefty utopian view. Never mind that it has to be paid for. It's about compassion and "helping pople".

Seriously. Screw helping people if it costs money. I have seen the light. Money > people in need.

[woot]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

France doesn't bomb and occupy other countries because they would get their asses kicked. Bonaparte hasn't been in charge there for a long time.

They're not afraid of terrorists because they're too big of pussies to stand up to them and would gladly kiss whichever terrorist organization wanted to take over their country.

That's not true and you know it. That's just stupid logic. If a terrorist organization tried to take over France, they would fight with everything they had, and they would get help from a bunch of other countries, including us. That is how it's supposed to work, and that's how the US became independent to start with: by fighting and asking for help. That the US gets bored waiting for something like that to happen and decides to invade countries without the ability or inclination to attack us is where we go wrong.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by woot

We pay double the amount per capita of any other country, including the many who have better healthcare systems. The spectre of raising taxes is bogus. I do think that the next president will have to raise taxes in order to try to overcome Bush's prodigal spending, but that will happen regardless of healthcare.

It comes down to this: We all agree that the government should provide certain basic services to its citizens. That you think that healthcare shouldn't be included in that doesn't make you less of a socialist than someone who does. It's only a matter of priorities.

The government's job is to only provide protection and infrastructure, IMO. When it gets it's hands on anything else, it screws up.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

No kidding. That is what I tell my bishop every year too. I don't have to pay any tithing, because if those people really need help, the bishop will just double my payment. If he refuses, then I know he doesn't really care about helping people.

Does your Bishop ask for more than 10% tithing. If Obama will only take 10% from me, he is my man.

[woot]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

The government's job is to only provide protection and infrastructure, IMO. When it gets it's hands on anything else, it screws up.

How does healthcare not fall under "protection"?