I have a theory about people who "don't trust the govt."

[K-dog]

I think I do pretty well for the amount of time I've been out of school.

[SeattleUte]

K-Dog, if all you care about is money you should have done something else. Big firm lawyers make a lot more than the average Joe, but not enough to make money be the sole reason you choose the profession. Lawyers at elite firms earn high incomes, but they don't get rich except for a small group, primarily corporate and securities lawyers in huge cities like New York or LA, and the very most successful of the plaintiff's bar. Maybe you define rich differently than I do.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by K-dog

I think I do pretty well for the amount of time I've been out of school.

There is the working class, then the middle class, then the upper middle class, then the well off, then the rich who think they are rich but aren't rich, and then the truly rich.

I put myself in the upper middle class, for your frame of reference.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Oh no, my warning light just went off. Someone who thinks he makes a lot of money, but really doesn't.

How I define "a lot of money" is making enough that your excess over necessity is such you could quit working any time and live off of your savings. There is only a tiny percentage of lawyers even at elite firms who fall in that category unless they're quite along in years.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

K-Dog, if all you care about is money you should have done something else. Big firm lawyers make a lot more than the average Joe, but not enough to make money be the sole reason you choose the profession. Lawyers at elite firms earn high incomes, but they don't get rich except for a small group, primarily corporate and securities lawyers in huge cities like New York or LA, and the very most successful of the plaintiff's bar. Maybe you define rich differently than I do.

Big law firms provide an education that assists you in getting rich while paying you well. You can get the education in a lot of places but few pay as well in the meantime.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

How I define "a lot of money" is making enough that your excess over necessity is such you could quit working any time and live off of your savings. There is only a tiny percentage of lawyers even at elite firms who fall in that category unless they're quite along in years.

Implicit in your definition is standard of living and financial acumen. Not sure how that relates to my choice of career.

[MikeWaters]

Put it this way: SU's brother is rich. You are not.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

What I am hearing is that some of you hate bureaucracies. Well, bureacracies are how big groups of people get things done.

Can't navigate the PTA? Heaven help you if you are a Bishop. Or a Stake President.

You all haven't discovered one of the secrets of life: the bureacracy is your friend, to be put into ACTION as YOUR tool. You all just haven't figured out how to do it.

I don't want and will not accept any of those callings even if in fantasy land those were forthcoming, which they are not.

I negotiate those labyrinths for pay and sometimes do it quite effectively, but doesn't mean I like doing it or believe it's the best way. J. Reuben Clark brought this and correlation to the Church. It modernized it and damned all at the same time.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Put it this way: SU's brother is rich. You are not.

First, I never said I was rich, you said I wasn't rich. I said I became a lawyer because it pays a lot of money.

Second, if rich is an absolute, as you seem to indicate, then SU's brothers wealth has no bearing on mine.

Finally, the point of this whole conversation is that I don't trust the govt. because they take what is mine. Not sure how that resulted in a conversation about my wealth or lack thereof.

[K-dog]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

There is the working class, then the middle class, then the upper middle class, then the well off, then the rich who think they are rich but aren't rich, and then the truly rich.

I put myself in the upper middle class, for your frame of reference.

I don't know where I would put myself because your categories are so subjective. Define them and I'll tell you where I am.