Texas executes an innocent man - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 09-10-2009, 05:41 PM

http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...7fa_fact_grann

The most interesting thing about this article is how Justice Scalia and other intelligent people who support the death penalty agree that if a single innocent man, wrongfully convicted, is executed, the death penalty loses all moral authority or justification. They contend this has never happened nor could it in our system. They are naive, deluded, or venal.

Here a man was tried for three alleged murders over just two days. A marriage counselor with a B.A. was allowed to testify that he was a sociopath. A psychotic fellow prisoner testified that this defendant, whom he had never met, and who steadfastly maintainted his innocence, until the moment before they stuck the lethal injection in him, and rejected a life in prisonment deal on the eve of trial, confessed to him through a food slot. The accuser was set free for giving this testimony. One of the prosecution's shrinks literally has kept score of all the men he helped send to the death penalty, and has had his license revoked for thusly whoring himself.

The arson investigators had high school diplomas and mail order certificates, and their conclusions were "wives' tales" and "junk science." They claimed to operate on "intuition" and denied applicability of science. After a real, world class scientist issued a report debunking the arson investigators' conclusions beyond any doubt the Texas clemency board and the governor didn't read it, by their own admission.

Texas-style justice. Sickening. Texas, Iran, China, Pakistan, these places are in a class by themselves.

MikeWaters · 09-10-2009, 08:31 PM

Most notable thing about this post: no blame placed on the judge, prosecutors and defense (I.e. Lawyers).

Archaea · 09-10-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Most notable thing about this post: no blame placed on the judge, prosecutors and defense (I.e. Lawyers).

I don't think I'll read seventeen pages, but are you aware if the "ineffective counsel" defense was NOT raised in the appeals. And I'll grant you that your post noted the "post" failed to raise that issue.

SeattleUte · 09-11-2009, 01:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

judge, prosecutors and defense (I.e. Lawyers).

Reason enough to abolish the death penalty. If it satisfies some elegant metaphysical construct you've conjured up in your mind but in practice is inequitably dispensed against the poor, the mentally impaired, the young, etc.--and irreversible--how is it defensible?

MikeWaters · 09-11-2009, 03:11 AM

How is any punishment for crime defensible, if we sometimes make mistakes?

I'll answer the question myself: all measurement tools are faulty. We strive to be as accurate and precise as possible.

We strive for high sensitivity and high specificity.

Sensitivity = discovering as many guilty as possible.
Specificity = Not punishing the innocent.

The way tests usually work is that if you increase the sensitivity, you end up decreasing the specificity and vice versa.

If the math were this: 500 killers not punished in order to prevent 1 innocent man from being punished, would you accept that? If not, what's the acceptable number to you?

I hate mushy-minded liberals who don't think.

The man who killed the lady in my ward in front of their children. he got some 40 years in jail. To the great thrill of liberals everywhere.

Dead killers don't kill again. We have killers who are killing other prisoners. We have killers who orchestrate killings outside of prison. Don't let the mushy-minded liberals tell you that there is not UTILITY in EXECUTION.

SeattleUte · 09-11-2009, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How is any punishment for crime defensible, if we sometimes make mistakes?

I'll answer the question myself: all measurement tools are faulty. We strive to be as accurate and precise as possible.

We strive for high sensitivity and high specificity.

Sensitivity = discovering as many guilty as possible.
Specificity = Not punishing the innocent.

The way tests usually work is that if you increase the sensitivity, you end up decreasing the specificity and vice versa.

If the math were this: 500 killers not punished in order to prevent 1 innocent man from being punished, would you accept that? If not, what's the acceptable number to you?

I hate mushy-minded liberals who don't think.

The man who killed the lady in my ward in front of their children. he got some 40 years in jail. To the great thrill of liberals everywhere.

Dead killers don't kill again. We have killers who are killing other prisoners. We have killers who orchestrate killings outside of prison. Don't let the mushy-minded liberals tell you that there is not UTILITY in EXECUTION.

There is something about the state taking someone's life that is in a class by itself. It's not on the same plane as incarceration.

You are a poor excuse for a libertarian, dissident and social critic.

MikeWaters · 09-11-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

There is something about the state taking someone's life that is in a class by itself. It's not on the same plane as incarceration.

You are a poor excuse for a libertarian, dissident and social critic.

Yeah, there were concepts in my post that will take a while for you to come to an elementary understanding of.

Let me know when you are up to speed and have something to say. Maybe you will have time when you are babysitting the kids again while your wife is hanging out in Louisiana.

MikeWaters · 09-14-2009, 06:58 PM

I suggest you all read this article:

http://www.corsicanadailysun.com/the...250180658.html

To hear the other side of the story.

09-10-2009, 05:41 PM	#1
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	Texas executes an innocent man http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2...7fa_fact_grann The most interesting thing about this article is how Justice Scalia and other intelligent people who support the death penalty agree that if a single innocent man, wrongfully convicted, is executed, the death penalty loses all moral authority or justification. They contend this has never happened nor could it in our system. They are naive, deluded, or venal. Here a man was tried for three alleged murders over just two days. A marriage counselor with a B.A. was allowed to testify that he was a sociopath. A psychotic fellow prisoner testified that this defendant, whom he had never met, and who steadfastly maintainted his innocence, until the moment before they stuck the lethal injection in him, and rejected a life in prisonment deal on the eve of trial, confessed to him through a food slot. The accuser was set free for giving this testimony. One of the prosecution's shrinks literally has kept score of all the men he helped send to the death penalty, and has had his license revoked for thusly whoring himself. The arson investigators had high school diplomas and mail order certificates, and their conclusions were "wives' tales" and "junk science." They claimed to operate on "intuition" and denied applicability of science. After a real, world class scientist issued a report debunking the arson investigators' conclusions beyond any doubt the Texas clemency board and the governor didn't read it, by their own admission. Texas-style justice. Sickening. Texas, Iran, China, Pakistan, these places are in a class by themselves. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster

09-10-2009, 08:31 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Most notable thing about this post: no blame placed on the judge, prosecutors and defense (I.e. Lawyers).

09-11-2009, 03:11 AM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	How is any punishment for crime defensible, if we sometimes make mistakes? I'll answer the question myself: all measurement tools are faulty. We strive to be as accurate and precise as possible. We strive for high sensitivity and high specificity. Sensitivity = discovering as many guilty as possible. Specificity = Not punishing the innocent. The way tests usually work is that if you increase the sensitivity, you end up decreasing the specificity and vice versa. If the math were this: 500 killers not punished in order to prevent 1 innocent man from being punished, would you accept that? If not, what's the acceptable number to you? I hate mushy-minded liberals who don't think. The man who killed the lady in my ward in front of their children. he got some 40 years in jail. To the great thrill of liberals everywhere. Dead killers don't kill again. We have killers who are killing other prisoners. We have killers who orchestrate killings outside of prison. Don't let the mushy-minded liberals tell you that there is not UTILITY in EXECUTION.

09-14-2009, 06:58 PM	#8
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I suggest you all read this article: http://www.corsicanadailysun.com/the...250180658.html To hear the other side of the story.