And now for some REAL torture ... - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Tex · 05-25-2007, 01:13 PM

Boy, all you gotta do is take a look at this al-Qaeda "how-to" torture manual they found, and you realize that there's nothing the US has done ... in Iraq, Gitmo, or even the depravity at Abu Ghraib ... that qualifies as torture.

When Bush says "we don't condone torture," this is what he's talking about. Waterboarding is child's play.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275341,00.html

MikeWaters · 05-25-2007, 02:02 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

Cali Coug · 05-25-2007, 02:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Boy, all you gotta do is take a look at this al-Qaeda "how-to" torture manual they found, and you realize that there's nothing the US has done ... in Iraq, Gitmo, or even the depravity at Abu Ghraib ... that qualifies as torture.

When Bush says "we don't condone torture," this is what he's talking about. Waterboarding is child's play.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275341,00.html

That is a pretty dishonest position, don't you think? I think most people will agree that what al-Qaeda does is worse than what the US is reported to have done DIRECTLY. But how do you then reach the conclusion that only one of the groups can be engaging in torture?

The proper measure of our standards should never be al-Qaeda. I would hope everyone, including yourself, would expect a little more than that from our government.

This doesn't even raise the issue of extraordinary rendition that MW pointed out.

Tex · 05-25-2007, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

That is a pretty dishonest position, don't you think? I think most people will agree that what al-Qaeda does is worse than what the US is reported to have done. But how do you then reach the conclusion that only one of the groups can be engaging in torture?

The proper measure of our standards should never be al-Qaeda. I would hope everyone, including yourself, would expect a little more than that from our government.

Torture is such a broad, ill-defined, emotion-evoking word, and the Left uses it so carelessly, I thought a little context would be in order.

Archaea · 05-25-2007, 05:07 PM

Does Mike really believe the US uniformly uses torture or whether an organization consisting of millions of employees may have a few rogue employees?

Mike has consistly acted as if the US is a large organization uniformly engaging is gross torture of mass numbers of persons. He has never provided evidence thereof, except a memo written which makes a legal argument to support some questionable activities.

Why is this a hot button item?

The US won't really be in the business of torture, it won't cost you money and it's not reflective of how the US routinely operates.

The Borg · 05-25-2007, 05:21 PM

Hmmm....lets see, I think I remember seeing a thread on here....

"Does evil exist?"

Cali Coug · 05-25-2007, 06:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

Torture is such a broad, ill-defined, emotion-evoking word, and the Left uses it so carelessly, I thought a little context would be in order.

Context is fine, but that isn't what you are doing. You are stating that what al-Qaeda does is torture (no dispute here) and therefore what the US does is NOT torture (which conclusion, based on your statements alone, has no logical basis).

Tex · 05-25-2007, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Context is fine, but that isn't what you are doing. You are stating that what al-Qaeda does is torture (no dispute here) and therefore what the US does is NOT torture (which conclusion, based on your statements alone, has no logical basis).

I think it takes big cognitive cahones to thumb through those detestable drawings and then come back to the US list of interrogation techniques and call any of them torture. It'd be like trying to argue that a flashlight and the sun have roughly the same level of brightness.

Tex · 05-25-2007, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

Once again, you are assuming that only one of the two parties could be engaged in torture. You are also assuming that the US policy of transferring detainees to foreign governments for torture is also not part of the equation.

Does the US directly engage in actions as deplorable as al-Qaeda? Almost certainly not (let's hope). But that doesn't give them a pass on what they do do (hehe- I just said do do, hehe).

Again, since when did al-Qaeda become the benchmark of appropriate conduct for the US?

And again, I didn't say it was. I'm talking about definitions, not justifications.

I'll try this one more time. I'm saying outright: one is torture, the other is not. And I'm amazed at how a person could confuse one with the other, ever.

UteStar · 05-26-2007, 03:23 AM

Then what do you call it Tex. I don't see why both would not be torture to varying degrees. You are correct, it is not as bad as what those terrorists do. So what. Yes, we are not as bad.

In regards to waterboarding. Nice to know that it is child's play. I think that comment alone lets me know just about well you understand things.

05-25-2007, 01:13 PM	#1
Tex Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 8,596	And now for some REAL torture ... Boy, all you gotta do is take a look at this al-Qaeda "how-to" torture manual they found, and you realize that there's nothing the US has done ... in Iraq, Gitmo, or even the depravity at Abu Ghraib ... that qualifies as torture. When Bush says "we don't condone torture," this is what he's talking about. Waterboarding is child's play. http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,275341,00.html __________________ "Have we been commanded not to call a prophet an insular racist? Link?" "And yes, [2010] is a very good year to be a Democrat. Perhaps the best year in decades ..." - Cali Coug "Oh dear, granny, what a long tail our puss has got." - Brigham Young

05-25-2007, 05:07 PM	#5
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Does Mike really believe the US uniformly uses torture or whether an organization consisting of millions of employees may have a few rogue employees? Mike has consistly acted as if the US is a large organization uniformly engaging is gross torture of mass numbers of persons. He has never provided evidence thereof, except a memo written which makes a legal argument to support some questionable activities. Why is this a hot button item? The US won't really be in the business of torture, it won't cost you money and it's not reflective of how the US routinely operates. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

05-25-2007, 05:21 PM	#6
The Borg Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 533	Hmmm....lets see, I think I remember seeing a thread on here.... "Does evil exist?" __________________ Hello......helloo.......HELLLOOO!

05-25-2007, 02:02 PM	#2
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extraordinary_rendition

05-26-2007, 03:23 AM	#10
UteStar Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,817	Then what do you call it Tex. I don't see why both would not be torture to varying degrees. You are correct, it is not as bad as what those terrorists do. So what. Yes, we are not as bad. In regards to waterboarding. Nice to know that it is child's play. I think that comment alone lets me know just about well you understand things.