07-03-2006, 04:54 PM | #21 | |
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There is only one marriage God truly countenances, that within the temple. By analogy, he acquiesces in civil ceremonies modelled after the union authorized within the temple. That much is clear. Nobody here, with the exception of perhaps Seattle, believes gay marriage is a good thing, some just find it to be a de minimis issuel, probably due to family members suffering from SSA. That is all.
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07-03-2006, 05:06 PM | #22 | |
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1. If there are more religious people is it because religions are increasingly more liberal and require less or is it the more "orthodox" religions that are more appealing or is it actually both? 2. Is there really more influence of religion in politics today than ever, or is it simply that in times gone by people generally had a much firmer base line of what their "morality" included and there was no need for a christian coalition? For example 50 years ago there didn't need to be an abortion debate or a gay rights debate because there was virtual unanimous opposition to them. I guess I tend to believe as to (1) above that it is both. With respect to (2), I think that the "christian right" has always been there and in much greater numbers than today but became better organized and more vocal in the last 30 years to combat the extremely well organized and mobilized special interest groups that emerged on the left. I also think, however, that the success of left wing special interest groups has prompted many of these folks on the christian right to to "hunker down" so to speak and become even more conservative and in many cases more strident.
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The Bible tells us how to go to heaven, not how the heavens go. -Galileo Last edited by UtahDan; 07-03-2006 at 05:11 PM. |
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07-03-2006, 05:36 PM | #23 | |
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The discussion was closed before I had a chance to respond. Ultimately the rhetoric will drown out the truth and the democratic societies within which we all live will grow increasingly self destructive … which leads us back to the question of what more can one do … the answer is self evident, and we refuse to listen. Last edited by tooblue; 07-04-2006 at 01:10 AM. |
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07-03-2006, 05:42 PM | #24 | |
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Therein lies the answer ... too many members want the church to be what it is not. |
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07-03-2006, 05:49 PM | #25 | |
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Whatever happened to, bring me your tattered, your poor, your disadvantaged? I thought America was founded on the principles of christianity, are we not a christian church? What about the BOM, it is full of examples where the poor are the ones cared for, and soon raise above the rich. The republican ideals of taking care of yourself have poisoned this church for long enough, it's seriously time to return to 'true mormonism,' ie, loving all, taking care of the poor, respecting people, etc. The church is, and only is a social institution, it's nothing more, nothing less. Look at the mission of the church, not only does it provide direct social lines of fellowship, it's aim is to create social interactions that extend outside of the realm of LDS. |
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07-03-2006, 05:56 PM | #26 | |
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I'm sure some will mis-interpret me based on my feelings on the subject and that's fine.
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07-03-2006, 05:57 PM | #27 | |
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Is there a difference when Christ gives us direction and we choose to tell him he's wrong? Yes.
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07-03-2006, 05:59 PM | #28 | |
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Society has changed so much since the days of Brigham Young. No longer is the Church the sole, and in many instances, even the primary social institution for its members. Here's what liberals don't understand. Resources are LIMITED. Leaders will make judgments where to allocate resources. It is sad to see persons who've never managed large resources be critisized by a bunch of people who've never managed the quantities of resources. The Church has a threefold purpose, not a onefold purpose, i.e., looking like a hand out organization so that some people can feel good about what people are doing. It is a common debate, do I teach a man how to fish or do I give a man a fish? The Church doesn't have a big pool of fish, but it has a wealth of knowledge how to fish. People seem to believe, wrongfully, that the Church has a boatload of fish sitting around. It doesn't.
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07-03-2006, 06:00 PM | #29 | |
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That's the beauty of the gospel, we can have people like hoya, homeboy, archaea, myself, and we can all think drastically different and still congregate under the same tenent of love and worship. So you can personally believe that homosexual marriage is evil, I can believe it's not that big of a deal, and we can both follow and love Jesus the same. |
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07-03-2006, 06:04 PM | #30 | |
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I don't consider someone a bad person just because they have a vice. My father-in-law was an alcoholic -- it eventually killed him -- but he was one of the most generous, decent men I have ever known. My best friend growing up was stoned every day of his life during his junior and senior years of high school. Last month he was released as a bishop and is now in the Stake Presidency. He's a good person now, and he was a good person back in high school. He's just a lot more responsible now. As for homesexuality, does that automatically make someone a bad person, a prime candidate for cleansing (you went on your mission to Germany, right? )? I just don't see it. Almost all the homosexual men I know are kind, generous people with honest jobs and productive lives. What is it about these people that make them so ripe for cleansing? Is it the homosexual sex act that so disturbs you? I realize that the notion of anal sex is repulsive to many people, but can't you say the same thing about fat-sex? Should we pass an ammendment that restricts marriage to people with less than 30% body fat? You lament the fact that people are finding religion less and less relevant today, but I would suggest that the problem is more a case of religion failing people today. The Christianity I see today has little in common with the Christianity I remember from my youth. Today's Christianity is strident, mean-spirited, divisive, political, judgmental, self-centered. Today's Christianity seems more interested in telling us who amongst us is evil, rather than encouraging us to love each other. Today's Christianity is a corrupt, bastardized version of the Christianity I see when I read the New Testament. Perhaps the problem today is that we worry too little about being Christian and worry too much about being religoius. Maybe if we relied less on our religions to tell us who is good and who is bad in the world, we would discover that things aren't quite as dire as we suppose.
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...You've been under attack for days, there's a soldier down, he's wounded, gangrene's setting in, 'Who's used all the penicillin?' 'Oh, Mark Paxson sir, he's got knob rot off of some tart.'" - Gareth Keenan |
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