Big 3 bailout?

[Venkman]

I know many folks are pretty cavalier about the prospect of America losing it's auto industry. This guy makes a pretty compelling case for a bailout and for the need to have a U.S. auto industry.

Personally, I'm for it. Yes, management has been incompetent in many cases, unions are overpaid, quality has sucked, but GM and Ford are beginning to do things right, and if they can just make it through the next year or so, I believe they can make it. It's worth a shot, IMO.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/e...ure/index.html

[BarbaraGordon]

Not me. No way. Crappy overpriced cars. They got what was coming to them, due to (among other things) their complete and utter failure to prepare for rising gasoline costs, relying almost wholly on SUV sales to stay afloat.

I much prefer the part of Romney's proposal that emphasizes transitioning Detroit in to the capital of America's energy sector. That seems much more viable to me.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Venkman

I know many folks are pretty cavalier about the prospect of America losing it's auto industry. This guy makes a pretty compelling case for a bailout and for the need to have a U.S. auto industry.

Personally, I'm for it. Yes, management has been incompetent in many cases, unions are overpaid, quality has sucked, but GM and Ford are beginning to do things right, and if they can just make it through the next year or so, I believe they can make it. It's worth a shot, IMO.

http://www.motortrend.com/features/e...ure/index.html

I'm with you as a rule I am generally againsts bailouts. That being said it will probably be cheaper for the American Taxpayer to do the bailout then have 2+million people unemployed

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

Not me. No way. Crappy overpriced cars. They got what was coming to them, due to (among other things) their complete and utter failure to prepare for rising gasoline costs, relying almost wholly on SUV sales to stay afloat.

I much prefer the part of Romney's proposal that emphasizes transitioning Detroit in to the capital of America's energy sector. That seems much more viable to me.

boy you have bought the japanese thought hook line and sinker. GM, Ford and Chrylser make a lot of really great cars. The new cobalt is nice and gets like 35 mpg. I have a 3 year old Mercury Mariner that would go 200k miles if we werent going to trade in for a minivan. Not to mention my 02 saturn that has 100k miles on it and will have very little upkeep.

[TripletDaddy]

It is interesting to read the shift on both boards.

A month or two ago, maybe more, lots of people clamoring to simply "let the market work it out."

Now that it is evident that this thing is a cluster-f of epic proportions, people are finally coming around to realizing that which some of us already knew....that there are times when government intervention is absolutely the right thing to do and that bailing out idiots, despite their stupid behavior, is in the best interest of society.

Get your checkbooks out friends. You are now paying for my house, my car, and my gas.

Gasp. socialism!

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

boy you have bought the japanese thought hook line and sinker. GM, Ford and Chrylser make a lot of really great cars. The new cobalt is nice and gets like 35 mpg. I have a 3 year old Mercury Mariner that would go 200k miles if we werent going to trade in for a minivan. Not to mention my 02 saturn that has 100k miles on it and will have very little upkeep.

Whenever I do business in the midwest, I am always impressed by the loyalty of the locals.....you see more American cars there than anywhere else. Everyone driving pontiacs and chevys and mercurys.

performance and reliability have definitely improved with American cars, but have they truly caught up with the Japanese? I know you can drive an Accord for 150K miles without batting an eyelash. Can you do the same with an American counterpart? I honestly don't know.

My beef with the American models is styling. The exteriors are usually very dull. And the interior panels always bug me....it looks like cheap plastic, there are about 3 large knobs to control everything, and the displays are usually unimpressive. The Japanese do a much better job with the paneling and instrumentation.....digital, lots of lights, lots of gadgets, looks like a cockpit. Bells and whistles matter.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

I'm with you as a rule I am generally againsts bailouts. That being said it will probably be cheaper for the American Taxpayer to do the bailout then have 2+million people unemployed

That's an unusually pessimistic number. So far this year, the total unemployed has only increased by 1.2 million. You think bankruptcy declarations by the Big Three would triple that number?

Under bankruptcy protection they'd get new owners, likely restructure their debt and their contractual obligations (read: UAW). GM is not going away, don't worry. The market has reacted appropriately to these companies' mistakes and they should be made to pay for them. In the long run, that's a better option than propping them up artificially and allowing them to limp along.

I may be unduly influenced by my oath to never buy another American car, too.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Mormon Red Death

boy you have bought the japanese thought hook line and sinker. GM, Ford and Chrylser make a lot of really great cars. The new cobalt is nice and gets like 35 mpg. I have a 3 year old Mercury Mariner that would go 200k miles if we werent going to trade in for a minivan. Not to mention my 02 saturn that has 100k miles on it and will have very little upkeep.

No. They're shitty cars. The data have proven it over and over again. I'm happy that you've had good luck with them, though. I've heard others say that, too.

It is also no stretch that their entire market share was built around SUVs. That was pathetically short-sighted.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by Tex

That's an unusually pessimistic number. So far this year, the total unemployed has only increased by 1.2 million. You think bankruptcy declarations by the Big Three would triple that number?

Under bankruptcy protection they'd get new owners, likely restructure their debt and their contractual obligations (read: UAW). GM is not going away, don't worry. The market has reacted appropriately to these companies' mistakes and they should be made to pay for them. In the long run, that's a better option than propping them up artificially and allowing them to limp along.

I may be unduly influenced by my oath to never buy another American car, too.

Yeah... because if GM goes under so do the auto suppliers like delphi, american axle etc... I'm not a proponent of bail outs. I am however pragmatic. 2 million unemployeed with a large share being in Michigan is something american taxpayers are going to pay for whether they like it or not.

[Mormon Red Death]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Whenever I do business in the midwest, I am always impressed by the loyalty of the locals.....you see more American cars there than anywhere else. Everyone driving pontiacs and chevys and mercurys.

performance and reliability have definitely improved with American cars, but have they truly caught up with the Japanese? I know you can drive an Accord for 150K miles without batting an eyelash. Can you do the same with an American counterpart? I honestly don't know.

My beef with the American models is styling. The exteriors are usually very dull. And the interior panels always bug me....it looks like cheap plastic, there are about 3 large knobs to control everything, and the displays are usually unimpressive. The Japanese do a much better job with the paneling and instrumentation.....digital, lots of lights, lots of gadgets, looks like a cockpit. Bells and whistles matter.

I guess it preference but I will take the new cobalt over any accord or toyota of the same class. the New cobalt is sweet, inexpensive and gets great gas mileage.