Now Ricco and The Whole Saunier Duval

[TripletDaddy]

In baseball, many athletes have already explained that a shorter recovery time IS a competitive advantage because it allows for more strengthening and less fatigue during games.

I also dismiss the notion (although not entirely) that regardless of juice, that Bonds still had to hit the ball....that steroids dont help you hit a ball. Bonds isnt know for hitting the ball. He is known for hitting the ball really far...and steroids help you do that.

What is the effect of EPO in the bloodstream of a cyclist? Higher oxygen sat allows you to ride harder because you are not out of breath? Are these cyclists also getting busted for muscle builders?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

In baseball, many athletes have already explained that a shorter recovery time IS a competitive advantage because it allows for more strengthening and less fatigue during games.

I also dismiss the notion (although not entirely) that regardless of juice, that Bonds still had to hit the ball....that steroids dont help you hit a ball. Bonds isnt know for hitting the ball. He is known for hitting the ball really far...and steroids help you do that.

What is the effect of EPO in the bloodstream of a cyclist? Higher oxygen sat allows you to ride harder because you are not out of breath? Are these cyclists also getting busted for muscle builders?

Landis was caught for testosterone. Most are caught (and all this year) for using EPO or some form of EPO, which increase the oxygen capacity of your blood.

As to Bonds, steroids make you stronger, or at least let you buiold faster by speeding recovery times. But HGH, at least anecdotally, can improve your eyesight allowing you to see the ball better, or at least to avoid the deteriorationin vision that is normal in one's late 30s and 40s.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by creekster

Landis was caught for testosterone. Most are caught (and all this year) for using EPO or some form of EPO, which increase the oxygen capacity of your blood.

As to Bonds, steroids make you stronger, or at least let you buiold faster by speeding recovery times. But HGH, at least anecdotally, can improve your eyesight allowing you to see the ball better, or at least to avoid the deteriorationin vision that is normal in one's late 30s and 40s.

So the testosterone was for building muscle mass? Presumably so that he could power through climbs?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

So the testosterone was for building muscle mass? Presumably so that he could power through climbs?

It is not clear. At the time many people were skpetical of the test result precisely becasue testosterone is not known for having short term benfits. Since then, I have read several reports from riders who say it does. It certainly was not a to build mass, as he used it in the middle of the tour and it led to one of the most remrakbale rides ever seen in the tour. As David Millar said today about Ricco, however, (paraphrasing) "We are beginning to learn that when things seem too good to be true, they are."

[creekster]

Originally Posted by Adam

Petite was clean and has never been accused of using. He was only accused of knowing about Clemens' using.

And Clemens has never failed a drug test (like Bonds has) and his head hasn't grown like Bonds or Sosa. If Clemens used, it was only late in his career to overcome injury, most likely.

While there might be an occasional pitcher who used, the vast majority are not suspected. In baseball it was the overwhelmingly power hitters who used.

In cycling, it is everyone. Surely you can admit that distinction.

I don't follow MLB like I do cycling, but I thought Petite admitted to tkaing HGH that had been prescirbned to his father and using it for himslef to speed his recovery. Is that incorrect?

I think you are kidding yourself when you say the MLB is limited to just a few guiys or just a few who are late in their careers. Cycling used ot say similar things. If these cyclists are willing to do this sort of cheating for salaries in the 100s of thousands a year (for most fothem) what would MLB guys do to extend theiur careers or raise their perfromance for Millions a year?

When you say it is everyone in cycling, what do you mena? Do I agree that everyone in cycling could benfit from drugs? Of course. Do you seriously contend that nto everyone in MLB could benefit from drugs? You must be joking if you do.

[TripletDaddy]

Pettitte did admit to taking HGH, although he claimed it was only once and it was to heal.

Which means he was a doper.

[Coach McGuirk]

Originally Posted by Adam

Petite was clean and has never been accused of using. He was only accused of knowing about Clemens' using.

And Clemens has never failed a drug test (like Bonds has) and his head hasn't grown like Bonds or Sosa. If Clemens used, it was only late in his career to overcome injury, most likely.

While there might be an occasional pitcher who used, the vast majority are not suspected. In baseball it was the overwhelmingly power hitters who used.

In cycling, it is everyone. Surely you can admit that distinction.

So because cycling demands strict testing and catches people it is dirty. And since baseball test is a joke and doesn't test then they are irish spring clean. You only say power hitters because those are the guys that left one season looking like Rasmussen and returned to spring training in the shape of the incredible hulk. This seems to be the test that baseball applies and everyone else is clean.


What a crock!

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

obviously the incentives are still stacked in favor of doping.

Exactly. Did anyone read the game theory article I posted? It's still the sucker bet to ride clean. Until that changes I'm afraid we're in for more of the same.

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by Adam

The use of these drugs prescribed by a doctor to aid in the healing and recovery from injury is exactly the right use of these drugs. I hope every athlete in every sport takes advantage of every chemical invented by man which will aid and speed their recovery. This isn't even a question IMHO. And anyone who has a problem with medical science aiding recovery from injury is an idiot.

Adam, has it really not crossed your mind that the healing line is bull? It's the healing between starts that provides the competitive advantage. That's one big reason pitchers use, and it's also why I think you grossly underestimate the number of pitchers who were using. The quick recovery is the thing they seek, not necessarily the increased power.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Adam

Petite was clean and has never been accused of using. He was only accused of knowing about Clemens' using.

And Clemens has never failed a drug test (like Bonds has) and his head hasn't grown like Bonds or Sosa. If Clemens used, it was only late in his career to overcome injury, most likely.

While there might be an occasional pitcher who used, the vast majority are not suspected. In baseball it was the overwhelmingly power hitters who used.

In cycling, it is everyone. Surely you can admit that distinction.

One distinction that is ignored. Cycling's testing is probably the most rigorous of any around.

Due to collective bargaining, the testing of baseball and football is fairly weak.

I believe almost every baseball player uses steroids and/or HGV which is performance enhancing, not just recuperative.

Cycling is cleaning up its act, baseball never will. There is no comparison. Just talk to minor leaguers and you'll discover cheating in baseball is MUCH, MUCH more rampant than cheating in cycling.