"Bronco has turned the honor code into a strength of the program"

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Would the removal of the Honor Code at BYU change BYU from being the most sober school in the nation? Would BYU all of a sudden turn into a pot smoking hippie school?

Why would the removal of the Honor Code change BYU's football program that dramatically? We'd probably start going after more non-LDS and we might be more successful with that recruiting since they wouldn't have to stress about the possibility of getting booted for a minor mistake.

I don't see how that would change our rating on the morality index (real or perceived) that significantly. We'll still have a ton of RM's and married players and all that.

Don't confuse the universe of all BYU students with the subpopulation of BYU athletes, nor assert that the behavior of both would be equally unaffected by the eradication of the Honor Code.

The existence of the Honor Code is in and of itself a filter that removes athletes that would likely get busted and in the news; with or without an Honor Code. To think that an absence of an Honor Code would not result in an increase in the number of public incidents is folly.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Would the removal of the Honor Code at BYU change BYU from being the most sober school in the nation? Would BYU all of a sudden turn into a pot smoking hippie school?

Why would the removal of the Honor Code change BYU's football program that dramatically? We'd probably start going after more non-LDS and we might be more successful with that recruiting since they wouldn't have to stress about the possibility of getting booted for a minor mistake.

I don't see how that would change our rating on the morality index (real or perceived) that significantly. We'll still have a ton of RM's and married players and all that.

You remove the ability to control through punishment. I would have a lot less trouble with the honor code if they would quit playing it up to be this wonderful moral code. It has some wonderful moral code in it, but it also has some real "profiling type " biases.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BYU71

You remove the ability to control through punishment. I would have a lot less trouble with the honor code if they would quit playing it up to me this wonderful moral code. It has some wonderful moral code in it, but it also has some real "profiling type " biases.

You and I see eye to eye on the Honor Code, may it rest in peace.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Don't confuse the universe of all BYU students with the subpopulation of BYU athletes, nor assert that the behavior of both would be equally unaffected by the eradication of the Honor Code.

The existence of the Honor Code is in and of itself a filter that removes athletes that would likely get busted and in the news; with or without an Honor Code. To think that an absence of an Honor Code would not result in an increase in the number of public incidents is folly.

Santos' type of argument reminds me of newspaper headlines that read, "Crime is down, despite high inmate population."

[jay santos]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Don't confuse the universe of all BYU students with the subpopulation of BYU athletes, nor assert that the behavior of both would be equally unaffected by the eradication of the Honor Code.

The existence of the Honor Code is in and of itself a filter that removes athletes that would likely get busted and in the news; with or without an Honor Code. To think that an absence of an Honor Code would not result in an increase in the number of public incidents is folly.

Half our team are RM's. Another 40% are LDS. 10% non-LDS. History shows non-LDS are most likely to screw up on Honor Code, next are non-RM LDS, last are RM's. Guys are going to generally live the lives they're used to living no matter the existence of the Honor Code. Unless those percentages changed drastically, BYU would still continue to be known as a squeaky clean program.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by jay santos

Half our team are RM's. Another 40% are LDS. 10% non-LDS. History shows non-LDS are most likely to screw up on Honor Code, next are non-RM LDS, last are RM's. Guys are going to generally live the lives they're used to living no matter the existence of the Honor Code. Unless those percentages changed drastically, BYU would still continue to be known as a squeaky clean program.

I have had two singles ward Bishops who have told me if they reported everything that happened with their ward members, they would be spending half their time as Bishop reporting kids to the HC committee and appearing. We are not talking the big ones here. The staying over night, the light petting, who knows, maybe more and they didn't want to admit they even didn't report those things.

Anyway, when you have Bishops in singles wards thinking the system is a nuisance, well. Of course they can't say that publicly.