Do you believe being gay is a choice

[Brian]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

If so, why would someone choose to be gay?

I have a cousin who is gay, and has seemed gay as long as I have ever known him. Gay is how he was born.
However, I also have a step sister-in-law who was a lesbian for a while, but is now married to a man.
Maybe she is bisexual, I don't know. She's a very annoying person and I try to avoid her, so the topic has never come up. But it would seem there was some choosing going on in her life.
So, there is probably data on both sides of the fence. However, I will say, that in my experiece, the couple of gay people that I have known growing up, seemed to be that way from the get-go.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How many gay Mormon suicides will it take for some of you to realize that being gay is not something most of these folks wanted to be?

Again, accounts of suicide empirically supporting me. I'm still waiting for one anecdote from the choicers.

How many victims of child sexual abuse by a member of their same sex choose not to perpetuate the abuse and choose not to pursue a homosexual lifestyle despite intense psychological conditioning?

There is an equally or even higher number of suicides among victims of childhood sexual abuse victims than among homosexuals who do not want to be homosexual.

[DrumNFeather]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The personal accounts I have heard with my own ears--being gay was something they desperately did NOT want to be. And of course I have heard the same sort of accounts in media and press. Honestly, I have never heard an account where someone claimed it was not tremendously difficult and ego-dystonic. That's why I asked you guys for an example. One example. Of course just one example doesn't prove that you "choicers" are correct, but it does add to possibility.

I actually haven't stated a position on this issue or voted in the poll. I've just heard the choice argument vs. the non-choice argument and it always seems to suggest that if people in this situation were given a choice, they would choose to not be gay...so I was just wondering what your thoughts were on that.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by DrumNFeather

I actually haven't stated a position on this issue or voted in the poll. I've just heard the choice argument vs. the non-choice argument and it always seems to suggest that if people in this situation were given a choice, they would choose to not be gay...so I was just wondering what your thoughts were on that.

I don't know that answer to that. I've wondered about the "if you take this pill you will be instantly heterosexual--will you take the pill."

I think many gays go through a mourning process, like the Kubler-Ross. Usually at the end, they accept themselves, and even are defiant. It comes to be an intrinsic piece of them, just like your intimate life is a intrinsic piece of you, and to rip it away is to perform self-amputation, which in a person who is at peace, is not attractive.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by tooblue

How many victims of child sexual abuse by a member of their same sex choose not to perpetuate the abuse and choose not to pursue a homosexual lifestyle despite intense psychological conditioning?

There is an equally or even higher number of suicides among victims of childhood sexual abuse victims than among homosexuals who do not want to be homosexual.

what does this have to do with anything? I've had things vandalized and have been robbed, but I choose not to do the same. This applies to sexual attraction, how?

You are obviously the one with the most need to feel that it is a conscious choice. Instead of questioning me, you should be questioning yourself.

[Taq Man]

So would the no choicers also agree that pedophiles have no choice in their sexual attraction to children?

Why would someone choose to be attracted to sex with 3 year olds?

What about bestiality? I have worked several cases of men who could not control their sexual attraction to animals to the point that they were unable to pass a dead deer carcas on the road without stopping to satisfy themselves.

At what point are we as humans responsible for our sexual attractions?

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what does this have to do with anything? I've had things vandalized and have been robbed, but I choose not to do the same. This applies to sexual attraction, how?

You are obviously the one with the most need to feel that it is a conscious choice. Instead of questioning me, you should be questioning yourself.

On the contrary. Examination of Homosexual behavior and the dismissal of environmental factors can't simply be placed in a bubble supported by inane evidence such as numbers of suicides Mike.

I'm not the one that has to question myself. You seem desperate to find an answer for your questions. Unfortunately I have personal experience with childhood abuse. I am very comfortable with my conclusions about just how much of a choice homosexual and any other abnormal sexual behavior is, in a persons life.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

So would the no choicers also agree that pedophiles have no choice in their sexual attraction to children?

Why would someone choose to be attracted to sex with 3 year olds?

What about bestiality? I have worked several cases of men who could not control their sexual attraction to animals to the point that they were unable to pass a dead deer carcas on the road without stopping to satisfy themselves.

At what point are we as humans responsible for our sexual attractions?

I hope you're not being sarcastic, Taq, because you make some very good points. The root question, whether the attraction is a choice or not, is: Does having an inclination mean I should have a right to act out on it?

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Tex

I hope you're not being sarcastic, Taq, because you make some very good points. The root question, whether the attraction is a choice or not, is: Does having an inclination mean I should have a right to act out on it?

I'm not being sarcastic at all. In fact both situations (the 3 year old and the bestiality) are real events that I have had the sad misfortune of being involved in. The 3 year old actually died from it. I have seen the men who did these horrible acts and they all said the same thing the gay community always says. They can't control what they are sexually attracted to.

I don't know that there is a clean anwser to this. I can't understand someone choosing to be attracted to kids or roadkill anymore than I can understand the biochemistry or social factors that would bring about the condition.

I do know that it wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was looked at as a perversion. It is now accepted. Where do we draw the line?????

In the bestiality cases the lawyers actually argued that it should be O.K. since no humans rights were violated (except for the woman who witnessed the perv in the bushes dropping the hammer on a day old deer carcass) but I think you get my point.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

I'm not being sarcastic at all. In fact both situations (the 3 year old and the bestiality) are real events that I have had the sad misfortune of being involved in. The 3 year old actually died from it. I have seen the men who did these horrible acts and they all said the same thing the gay community always says. They can't control what they are sexually attracted to.

I don't know that there is a clean anwser to this. I can't understand someone choosing to be attracted to kids or roadkill anymore than I can understand the biochemistry or social factors that would bring about the condition.

I do know that it wasn't that long ago that homosexuality was looked at as a perversion. It is now accepted. Where do we draw the line?????

In the bestiality cases the lawyers actually argued that it should be O.K. since no humans rights were violated (except for the woman who witnessed the perv in the bushes dropping the hammer on a day old deer carcass) but I think you get my point.

This is the same point that some conservatives have made--Rick Santorum comes to mind--and immediately get criticized for "comparing" homosexuality to beastiality. He wasn't comparing the acts, he was comparing the rationale for legitimacy. And they are the same.