08-23-2006, 09:38 PM | #31 | |
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Though you probably already knew that.
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08-23-2006, 09:44 PM | #32 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-23-2006 at 09:48 PM. |
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08-23-2006, 09:55 PM | #33 |
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The BofA also has in the heading "by his own hand upon papyrus".
I think the BofA apologists do a lot of mental gymnastics to cat a cloud of mystery on the process. I especially enjoy the theory that Joseph really did think he was translating and God let him think he was translating but really it was just revelation. The current direction is in the area of corroborating details in the text to new discoveries about Abraham from other sources. |
08-23-2006, 10:07 PM | #34 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-23-2006 at 10:21 PM. |
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08-23-2006, 10:19 PM | #35 | |
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08-23-2006, 10:38 PM | #36 | |
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Faith is an interesting vehicle as it leads some people to do insane actions to prove their resolve. Faith moves mountains many times out of sheers stupidity. |
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08-23-2006, 10:45 PM | #37 |
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Slightly off-topic, but all of this talk about "mental gymnastists" always intrigues me. Picking apart matters of faith and religion has always been a pretty simple exercise. Do LDS participate in "mental gymnastics"? Absolutely. As do virtually all other believers of religion. It all starts with a belief in a supreme being that is omnipresent, omniscient, and omnipotent. Isn't that the biggest "mental gymnastic" of all? Aren't we just quibling over details after that? The LDS faith is unique in that we believe in modern revelation and modern prophets, thus providing a richer and more fully-detailed set of artifacts and documents for the faithless to sift through and pick apart. And I am always struck by the irony of baptists and evangelicals who pick apart the historicity of the BOM and then tell you (with a straight face) that the earth is literally 6000 years old. As SU says, the long-term investment, egos, familial and cultural pressures certainly play a part in keeping the faithful faithful. But I would like to believe that what SU briefly mentioned as the "subjective" spiritual witness is what keeps many of us in the fold. Yes, it is subjective. But at the end of the day, each of us has to balance all of these stimuli, both spiritual and rational, and decide for ourselves what path to take.
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08-23-2006, 10:51 PM | #38 | |
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster |
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08-23-2006, 10:54 PM | #39 |
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Whether God spoke to JS is one thing.
Whether JS married more than one woman is another. One is much easier to prove. Hence, "mental gymnastics". |
08-23-2006, 11:03 PM | #40 |
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I think mental gymnastics come into play becuase the LDS Church falls into the post-Reformation side of Christianity that takes an essentially literalist view of the the Bible. This strain of Christianity is virtually gone from Europe, and is now most prevalent in Utah and the Souteastern United States. Catholicism has long since moved away from any literal belief in any of the Biblical stories except for Jesus' miracles and the atonement, Catholic Hagiography regarding miracles, which it's possible to reject and still be a devout Catholic, notwithstanding.
Yes, I know, Mormons don't accept all of the Bible as being perfectly true. But the fact is that the lore surrounding the Book of Mormon, the bestowing of the priesthood keys, etc., and belief in "modern revelation," stamp Mormonism as extremely of the Biblical literalist point of view. As modern science marches inexorably forward methods for objectively testing the old stories become more sophisticated and potent. Hence, mental gymnasitics. Catholics live much more easily with doubt than Mormons or evangelicals, basically because modern cutlure originally took root within its precincts.
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Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 08-23-2006 at 11:05 PM. |
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