do 8 year olds "decide" to be baptized?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

At what age do you think you could have learned enough about another religion to break away from your upbringing as a Mormon?

13?

Is that question really relevant?

Like I said before, baptism at 8 years old is a ritual and a custom. Let's not argue that it isn't.

I'm just saying that 8 year olds are capable enough to understand (imperfectly as it might be) the importance of baptism and decide for themselves that it's something they want to do.

Let me ask this question again

At what age should people be baptized? How much knowledge and understanding and freedom from the brutal dictates of parents, friends and family is required in order to make an informed decision to be baptized?

[MikeWaters]

Indy, maybe there shouldn't be a specific age. Maybe it should be based on maturity and undertanding and education.

That makes the most sense to me.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Indy, maybe there shouldn't be a specific age. Maybe it should be based on maturity and undertanding and education.

That makes the most sense to me.

But it would certainly be older than at 8 years of age?

[MikeWaters]

The law says that an 8 year old doesn't have the competency to make decisions about medical treatment.

Isn't eternal salvation more important than pedestrian medical treatment?

I don't have a problem with 8 year old baptism. It is what it is however.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

But it would certainly be older than at 8 years of age?

I don't know. I think 10yo would be a much better age in terms of reasoning and intellect.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by Adam

"Families can be together forever through Heavenly Father's plan. I always want to be with my own family. And the Lord has shown me how I can. The Lord, has shown me how I can."

Translation: Temples are important.

To pretend that kids don't get the message that they have to follow the church's mandates on consequence of being ripped from the arms of Mommy is to display a shocking ignorance of the entire culture of primary. You should go spend some time there with your kids.

I taught primary for 4 years to pre-baptism aged children.

The fact that she was pestering you from age 4 to be baptized shows pretty conclusively to me that it was not an informed or well-considered choice. You have to define the word pretty broadly to apply it to this situation. But we are just arguing semantics here.

I'm not sure what the huge bone of contention is all about here anyway. What are we agreeing to when we are baptized as children? Is it more of a "I'm getting baptized because the church is true and the other ones will send you to hell and if I don't get baptized Mommy and Daddy will go to heaven and I will go to hell and I certainly won't be playing Nintendo for several weeks", or is it more of a "I'm getting baptized because baptism was important enough that Mommy, Daddy and even Jesus got baptized and church is a place where we learn about Jesus and I want to be more like Jesus and if we choose the right we will be happy"?

The weightier covenants we make aren't at baptism and those covenants can't be made until we're much older. Baptism is just the gateway.

I'm sorry you guys got strong-armed into the church, but don't begrudge every 8 year old that gets baptized as being done under duress or as being some underhanded way of spritually kidnapping them before they have a chance to know what hit them.

[MikeWaters]

Indy, answer this:

Why is a 9 year old raised in the church required to get all of the missionary discussions, whereas a 8 year old raised in the church (or not raised in the church) is not required?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Indy, answer this:

Why is a 9 year old raised in the church required to get all of the missionary discussions, whereas a 8 year old raised in the church (or not raised in the church) is not required?

Because the assumption is that a 9 year old that hasn't been baptized is likely in a family that has been completely inactive or less active for a period of time and are unlikely to have been taught by their parents or in church about the gospel. I've seen tons of examples of this; my nephew for one.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I can't think of a single instance where a child that had been going to church all their life with an active parent or parents that decided not to get baptized until after age 9.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

Because the assumption is that a 9 year old that hasn't been baptized is likely in a family that has been completely inactive or less active for a period of time and are unlikely to have been taught by their parents or in church about the gospel. I've seen tons of examples of this; my nephew for one.

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I can't think of a single instance where a child that had been going to church all their life with an active parent or parents that decided not to get baptized until after age 9.

I gave you an example in this thread.

But you didn't address why an 8 year old who had never attended church more than a month could be baptized without missionary discussions.

[RedHeadGal]

The whole thing may or may not be coercive. Or is may or may not be informed (at least to some extent). I'm sure most kids who are raised in the church are genuinely excited--it's a milestone in their lives.

But most here seem to agree that it's not so much a "decision" they make, which begs the question I started with. Why were all the speakers saying that to this child: how great her decision, how important her decision, Heavenly Father is proud of her decision. What do people mean by that? It's good this is happening to you?