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Old 01-16-2018, 09:22 PM   #11
MikeWaters
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I don't watch news anymore. I see it mainly as biased partisan groups yelling at each other.

For example, I read a CNN article about immigration, and the guy called Dick Durbin a moderate. I laughed.
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Old 01-19-2018, 08:43 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeWaters View Post
I don't watch news anymore. I see it mainly as biased partisan groups yelling at each other.

For example, I read a CNN article about immigration, and the guy called Dick Durbin a moderate. I laughed.
With an aging population and low birth rate, we should probably err on the side of letting more people in legally than the other way, or eventually the economy will pay the price for it. Trump got popular with his base for harping on illegals, but over the last few weeks he's basically been pushing for the slam the door shut on almost all legal immigration also approach, which combined with stifling free trade would be very bad for the economy.
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Old 01-20-2018, 01:45 AM   #13
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You just stated the prevalent libertarian position. Open borders for productive people. Lots of immigration produces winners and losers. Who are The Losers?
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Old 01-22-2018, 02:27 PM   #14
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You just stated the prevalent libertarian position. Open borders for productive people. Lots of immigration produces winners and losers. Who are The Losers?
I honestly don't believe there are that many losers under a well designed immigration law that isn't so restrictive that honest people wanting to make a better life for themselves can't enter legally, so they opt for the black market. That's really where a lot of the problems stem from.

It is a lot like drugs. You can try to spend billions on fighting a war that only addresses the supply side, but as long as there is demand, it barely matters. Same goes for labor. And the demand for labor is only going to increase. With millions of people going into retirement and fewer workers to pay for it, the country needs the labor. Or we can drastically cut back social security benefits, which there is no appetite for under either party.
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Old 01-22-2018, 05:17 PM   #15
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You honestly believe there would be no losers if the US had open borders. Anyone who is "honest" can come and work and live.
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Old 01-22-2018, 09:10 PM   #16
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You honestly believe there would be no losers if the US had open borders. Anyone who is "honest" can come and work and live.
I didn't say totally open, uncontrolled borders.

What a lot of people don't realize is how hard it is already to enter the country legally if you want to live here and work. And Trump's idea is to make it even harder.
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Old 01-22-2018, 11:55 PM   #17
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the list of honest people in the world who want a better life and would move to USA at the drop of a hat if given a visa is how long?
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Old 01-23-2018, 12:00 AM   #18
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I think you're playing lose and hard with the facts.

Legal immigration: We're giving legal status to more immigrants from 2010 on (per year), compared to any decade since 1930.
'
He's a pretty flabbergasting fact:
% of people in America who are native born in 1970: 4.7%.

In 2015 it is 13.4% and rising rapidly.

Please stop saying we can't control our borders and immigration. We choose not to.

Please stop saying it is harder than ever to get a green card in America.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:41 AM   #19
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4.7% in 1970 is the lowest percentage of foreign born in the entire history of the United States. It's a huge outlier in the history of the the country. That's the standard we want to go for? Maybe partially as a result, the 1970s economy was really bad. I mean, ironicially Jimmy Carter won in 1976 exactly because the economy sucked. That was his campaign message, kind of like Clinton's in 92. Furthermore, the 12.9% of today is still lower than what that percentage was at any time in the US between 1860 and 1920. It's not alarmingly high by historical standards. And how much of this is due to the birth rate among the native born today being ridiculously low as opposed to it being that easy to enter legally? Yet, despite all these terrible foreigners running around, as Fox Noise! would have us believe, the US remains a really great place to live, IMO. The economy is pretty strong. Sure, it's not as great for those who don't have education, but some type of post HS training that can lead to good employment is not really that hard to come by for the motivated. There are grants for that. I should know. I grew up worse than dirt poor. I just don't see demographic trends by themselves as a good reason to crack down on legal immigration.
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Old 01-23-2018, 02:54 AM   #20
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Says the guy who has always lived in the far away burbs?

For people like me, legal and illegal immigration don't have a huge effect. Well I take that back, there is no doubt I would make more money if some legal immigration was curtailed in my profession. But I don't really care about that.

Is America fracturing right now or coming together. If we are coming together, then by all means, continue record immigration. If we are fracturing, maybe we need a period of reduced immigration. So says Andrew Sullivan.
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