The Dark Knight (spoilers)

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Why is it that no one addressed any related points to what I have talked about in this thread, previously?

It just shows that I am interested in different things than most people here. I am less concerned with whether Two-Face got enough air-time, whether a kid was held hostage, whether Heath Ledger was awesome. I'm interested in the questions that the movie brings up.

What is the punishment for bringing up the larger issues? Small minds lash out.

Santos, I think that was a great issue to discuss with your kids.

Possible answers include: 1) utilitarian--not everyone should die. 2) Justice--those that are prisoners have less worth and should die. 3) Survival of the fittest--the will to act. That is, whichever group is bold enough to kill the others and live with those consequences, should live. 4) moralistic. we should not do evil, no matter the consequences. Most adults, much less children, cannot morally reason and consider these and other choices.

I think the situation was contrived and not worthy of broader moral questions.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Tex

I think the situation was contrived and not worthy of broader moral questions.

Esp. since your response would indict you.

You were, in your mind, urging them to push the button, weren't you.

How many times have you mentioned a ticking bomb scenario, yet this is completely beneath your contempt?

I think, in summation of your career on CB and CG you have little interest in examining the morality of things (other than in a broad mullah-ish way with sniping retorts, followed by denials and obfuscation). Or more likely, you don't have the ability to engage in it.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Why is it that no one addressed any related points to what I have talked about in this thread, previously?

It just shows that I am interested in different things than most people here. I am less concerned with whether Two-Face got enough air-time, whether a kid was held hostage, whether Heath Ledger was awesome. I'm interested in the questions that the movie brings up.

What is the punishment for bringing up the larger issues? Small minds lash out.

Santos, I think that was a great issue to discuss with your kids.

Possible answers include: 1) utilitarian--not everyone should die. 2) Justice--those that are prisoners have less worth and should die. 3) Survival of the fittest--the will to act. That is, whichever group is bold enough to kill the others and live with those consequences, should live. 4) moralistic. we should not do evil, no matter the consequences. Most adults, much less children, cannot morally reason and consider these and other choices.

It is tough to contend with the large mind that wants to have serious discussions about Batman.

Perhaps we should have a symposium?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Why is it that no one addressed any related points to what I have talked about in this thread, previously?

It just shows that I am interested in different things than most people here. I am less concerned with whether Two-Face got enough air-time, whether a kid was held hostage, whether Heath Ledger was awesome. I'm interested in the questions that the movie brings up.

What is the punishment for bringing up the larger issues? Small minds lash out.

Santos, I think that was a great issue to discuss with your kids.

Possible answers include: 1) utilitarian--not everyone should die. 2) Justice--those that are prisoners have less worth and should die. 3) Survival of the fittest--the will to act. That is, whichever group is bold enough to kill the others and live with those consequences, should live. 4) moralistic. we should not do evil, no matter the consequences. Most adults, much less children, cannot morally reason and consider these and other choices.

The context and nuance of the film did not give way to discussing these larger issues. In fact, because the film is cartoonish, linking discussion of those issues with this film would trivialize those issues. That's why.

I disagree that the film delved deeply into those issues, but rather only did so superficially. This isn't some deep essay into the minds of our enemies, humanizing them as we see ourselves through their eyes, the true window of terror.

[MikeWaters]

Ok, for those of you who think that The Dark Knight does not bring up any important moral issues, let's talk about Munich. Or did that not bring up important moral issues either?

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Ok, for those of you who think that The Dark Knight does not bring up any important moral issues, let's talk about Munich. Or did that not bring up important moral issues either?

Munich...the movie from 3 or 4 years ago?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Esp. since your response would indict you.

You were, in your mind, urging them to push the button, weren't you.

How many times have you mentioned a ticking bomb scenario, yet this is completely beneath your contempt?

I think, in summation of your career on CB and CG you have little interest in examining the morality of things (other than in a broad mullah-ish way with sniping retorts, followed by denials and obfuscation). Or more likely, you don't have the ability to engage in it.

While I deeply appreciate your psychoanalysis and personal attacks, if we could stick to the matter at hand ...

DDD and Arch have expressed a pretty fair assessment of how I feel about the flick. The movie was about a comic book character. Wonderful entertainment, but I don't put much more stock in it than that.

[MikeWaters]

here's a take on the ferry-boat scene.

http://ergosum.wordpress.com/2008/08...e-dark-knight/

This is written by an Ayn Rand acolyte. Aside: why, unfailingly, are Rand worshippers almost always among the most despicable, inhumane, evil people on the planet?

[SeattleUte]

I have not seen this latest Batman. But vehemently I disagree that comic book characters and popular entertainment are incapable of raising serious moral issues. That's manifestly not true. Philip K. Dick's not especially well-written sci fi pulp engrosses today because of the moral issues he raised. Similar could be said about Kurt Vonnegut's and George Orwell's work.

The greatest works of mythology including the Bible are fairly common and down to earth stories that endure because of their moral resonance. The Book of Mormon is pretty crude as literature, but the resonance to many of the moral issues it raises causes it to endure.

I might add, that the deeper, moral dimension of artistic works often takes time to be appreciated. This is why films such as Scarface and Apocalypse Now were not particlularly well thought of or popular successes when released but became cult classics.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

here's a take on the ferry-boat scene.

http://ergosum.wordpress.com/2008/08...e-dark-knight/

This is written by an Ayn Rand acolyte. Aside: why, unfailingly, are Rand worshippers almost always among the most despicable, inhumane, evil people on the planet?

Interesting analysis, more interesting than the actual scene.

The problem with the movie was you never really feared for anybody. In a comic book movie, the possibility for real tragedy doesn't exist. The good guy will ultimately prevail.

In a movie such as Munich, which I did not see, or if I did, I did not finish, you can see that tragedy in life is possible and does occur.

So the moral dilemma clumsily put forward is farcical.