Gladiator is a classic

[Jeff Lebowski]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

My take from Lebowski wasnt so much a suggestion that our appreciation is inferior...as much as he personally feels a closer kinship to the events through the on-screen visual. He wasnt advocating an en masse viewing of an unedited war movie.

Yes, thank you.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Venkman

BUT, this movie is about as close to experiencing the awful event one can get without actually being there. Many vets who were there have said so.

This is a fair point.

Also, I have definitely read comments from vets who attest to what you are saying. There was a lot of commentary to this point when the movie came out.

[SeattleUte]

Trippledaddy, close your eyes! Here's a famous scene from Western Civilization's perhaps oldest and perhaps greatest if not most infuential work of literature, NC-17 rated for violence:

Next he sprang on Thestor son of

Enops, who was sitting all huddled up in his chariot, for he had

lost his head and the reins had been torn out of his hands.

Patroclus went up to him and drove a spear into his right jaw; he

thus hooked him by the teeth and the spear pulled him over the

rim of his car, as one who sits at the end of some jutting rock

and draws a strong fish out of the sea with a hook and a line--

even so with his spear did he pull Thestor all gaping from his

chariot; he then threw him down on his face and he died while

falling. On this, as Erylaus was on to attack him, he struck him

full on the head with a stone, and his brains were all battered

inside his helmet, whereon he fell headlong to the ground and the

pangs of death took hold upon him. Then he laid low, one after

the other, Erymas, Amphoterus, Epaltes, Tlepolemus, Echius son of

Damastor, Pyris, lpheus, Euippus and Polymelus son of Argeas.

--Iliad Book 16 (By Homer, Butler prose tans.)

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Trippledaddy, close your eyes! Here's a famous scene from Western Civilization's perhaps oldest and perhaps greatest if not most infuential work of literature, NC-17 rated for violence:

Next he sprang on Thestor son of

Enops, who was sitting all huddled up in his chariot, for he had

lost his head and the reins had been torn out of his hands.

Patroclus went up to him and drove a spear into his right jaw; he

thus hooked him by the teeth and the spear pulled him over the

rim of his car, as one who sits at the end of some jutting rock

and draws a strong fish out of the sea with a hook and a line--

even so with his spear did he pull Thestor all gaping from his

chariot; he then threw him down on his face and he died while

falling. On this, as Erylaus was on to attack him, he struck him

full on the head with a stone, and his brains were all battered

inside his helmet, whereon he fell headlong to the ground and the

pangs of death took hold upon him. Then he laid low, one after

the other, Erymas, Amphoterus, Epaltes, Tlepolemus, Echius son of

Damastor, Pyris, lpheus, Euippus and Polymelus son of Argeas.

--Iliad Book 16 (By Homer, Butler prose tans.)

Is there an edited version you could send me?

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

Is there an edited version you could send me?

Here's a version with the carnage cropped off of one of my favorite scenes:

"Achilles exploded forward, fury
Incarnate behind the curve of his shield,
A glory of metalwork, and the plumes
Nodded and rippled on his helmet’s crest,
Thick golden horsehair set by Hephaestus,
And his spearpoint glinted like the Evening Star,
In the gloom of night,
Star of perfect splendor
A gleam in the air as Achilles poised
His spear with murderous aim at Hector. . ."

--Lombardo translation

[TripletDaddy]

As you can see, careful editing can remove the violence without losing the message:

Next he sprang on Thestor son of

Enops, who was sitting all huddled up in his chariot, for he had

died and the reins had left his hands.

Patroclus went up to him and hurt him (actually almost killing him! Wow!); he

continued to fight him and pulled him over the

rim of his car, as one who sits at the end of some jutting rock

and draws a strong fish out of the sea with a hook and a line--

even so did he pull Thestor, who at this point was badly hurt, from his

chariot; then, resorting to fisticuffs, he behaved aggressively and he died

while falling. On this, as Erylaus was on to attack him, he threw a rock at him, thereby cutting him, whereon he fell headlong to the ground and he passed away. Then he laid low, one after

the other, Erymas, Amphoterus, Epaltes, Tlepolemus, Echius son of

Damastor, Pyris, lpheus, Euippus and Polymelus son of Argeas.

--Iliad Book 16 (By Homer, Butler prose tans., edit by TripletDaddy)

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

As you can see, careful editing can remove the violence without losing the message:

Next he sprang on Thestor son of

Enops, who was sitting all huddled up in his chariot, for he had

died and the reins had left his hands.

Patroclus went up to him and hurt him (actually almost killing him! Wow!); he

continued to fight him and pulled him over the

rim of his car, as one who sits at the end of some jutting rock

and draws a strong fish out of the sea with a hook and a line--

even so did he pull Thestor, who at this point was badly hurt, from his

chariot; then, resorting to fisticuffs, he behaved aggressively and he died

while falling. On this, as Erylaus was on to attack him, he threw a rock at him, thereby cutting him, whereon he fell headlong to the ground and he passed away. Then he laid low, one after

the other, Erymas, Amphoterus, Epaltes, Tlepolemus, Echius son of

Damastor, Pyris, lpheus, Euippus and Polymelus son of Argeas.

--Iliad Book 16 (By Homer, Butler prose tans., edit by TripletDaddy)

Yuck! BTW, "lost his head" means he'd paniced, not died. He didn't die until Patroclus did the business with the spear like a hooked fish.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Yuck! BTW, "lost his head" means he'd paniced, not died. He didn't die until Patroclus did the business with the spear like a hooked fish.

I figured there were a few continuity errors in there, but my producers were pressuring me to release something quickly to be eligible for Oscar consideration.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Saving Private Ryan is awful after the first 15 minutes. Edited or not, it's not worth watching after the first 15 minutes.

here is Webster's definition of "awful":

1: inspiring awe
2: filled with awe: as aobsolete : afraid, terrified b: deeply respectful or reverential
3: extremely disagreeable or objectionable <awful food>
4: exceedingly great —used as an intensive <an awful lot of money>
—

I'm going to assume Waters is referring to defintions 1,2, or 4, and not 3. For example, the scene where the GI fights the Nazi in the loft hand to hand as the GI's comrade, who could rescue him, cowers in fear on the stairs, until finally the Nazi gains the upper hand, and kills the brave GI slowly as he whispers the creepy lullaby, "Easy, easy, it's much better this way; it's almost over, shh" is great art.

That is an awful scene, yes, but in a monumental way. Waters, you need to see the movie again if you disagree. (Stories like this are supposed to be a little cheesy and scenes such as I describe above redeem the necessary ingredient of Hollywood sentimentality in SPR completely.)

[SteelBlue]

Originally Posted by TripletDaddy

If they come on TV, I will try to catch them. i dont particularly care for graphic violence, so watching them in an unedited format may be a bit too much for me. I would assume the TV versions would cut out most of the graphic stuff without sacrificing too much story.

Gladiator is no more violent than Lord of the Rings. It is nowhere near as graphic as SPR. You would not be bothered by an unedited version of Gladiator unless your purpose in not seeing it was to avoid all R rated movies.

I have to agree with SU re: Gladiator. The opening battle is one of the best in cinema. To my knowledge, Gladiator is the only R rated movie quoted from the pulpit in General Conference: "What we do in life echoes in eternity".