Morning after pill

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

No seriously.

Drunken mishap = embryo sacrosanct

Rape = embryo meat

What do you think about abortion after rape? I presume you are fine with it?

You use your characterizations wisely.

I don't believe much in drunken mishaps. My niece has been sexually active for quite some time. She got drunk and did something she has been doing for a while. It wasn't a mishap.

How is getting drunk and having sex equivalent to getting raped?

I'm not "fine" with abortions after rape. The fetus created as a result of rape clearly has all the same rights to life as the baby created by consensual sex. But there are countervailing interests that may make it morally justifiable. I am open to that possiblity.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Levin

You use your characterizations wisely.

I don't believe much in drunken mishaps. My niece has been sexually active for quite some time. She got drunk and did something she has been doing for a while. It wasn't a mishap.

How is getting drunk and having sex equivalent to getting raped?

How does the value of the embryo change based on whether there was consent?

Again, do you think abortion after rape is ok?

Also, I don't get why whether your niece was previously sexually active has anything to do with it. If she was a virgin prior to the drunken interlude, would you then be ok with MAP?

[Levin]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

How does the value of the embryo change based on whether there was consent?

Again, do you think abortion after rape is ok?

Also, I don't get why whether your niece was previously sexually active has anything to do with it. If she was a virgin prior to the drunken interlude, would you then be ok with MAP?

What I'm saying is I don't believe in drunken mishaps. Having never been drunk, it is hard for me to say, but I don't think a person is relieved of being a moral agent when drunk. It's a choice to get drunk, and a person's volition is not so impaired by alcohol so as to strip away all moral agency.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by Levin

I'm not "fine" with abortions after rape. The fetus created as a result of rape clearly has all the same rights to life as the baby created by consensual sex. But there are countervailing interests that may make it morally justifiable. I am open to that possiblity.

Just in case you missed my edited answer.

[landpoke]

Originally Posted by Levin

What I'm saying is I don't believe in drunken mishaps. Having never been drunk, it is hard for me to say, but I don't think a person is relieved of being a moral agent when drunk. It's a choice to get drunk, and a person's volition is not so impaired by alcohol so as to strip away all moral agency.

If you've admittedly not been drunk then what basis do you have for your statement? As one who has been drunk on many occasions I can say definitively that there is severe impairment to one's volition. I don't know exactly what you mean by "moral agency" so I can't speak to that point, but I've woken up next to a few large women in my time which probably indicates a certain amount of stripping.

[Levin]

Originally Posted by landpoke

If you've admittedly not been drunk then what basis do you have for your statement? As one who has been drunk on many occasions I can say definitively that there is severe impairment to one's volition. I don't know exactly what you mean by "moral agency" so I can't speak to that point, but I've woken up next to a few large women in my time which probably indicates a certain amount of stripping of one's moral agency.

I agree that some volition is stripped, but not all of it, as it is with rape. There's no equivalency between the two.

Are you sure the larger women didn't, you know, take advantage of you?

[landpoke]

Originally Posted by Levin

I agree that some volition is stripped, but not all of it, as it is with rape. There's no equivalency between the two.

Are you sure the larger women didn't, you know, take advantage of you?

Back in the day, after I'd had a few, my love didn't discriminate on the basis of race, creed, color, national origin or waist size. As my dear departed grandfather used to tell us kids: [another word for cat] is [another word for cat.]

So, to answer your question, it was most definitely consensual.

[MikeWaters]

so you think a second trimester abortion in the case of rape is justified.

That's fine. But dont' argue that a fetus is living being with rights.

[landpoke]

I also think you're underestimating the power of our throbbing biological urges unfettered by those pesky inhibitions. A strong argument can be made that alcohol combined with unbound hormones very much strips a person of their moral footings to the point where they have no control over their actions.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by landpoke

I also think you're underestimating the power of our throbbing biological urges unfettered by those pesky inhibitions. A strong argument can be made that alcohol combined with unbound hormones very much strips a person of their moral footings to the point where they have no control over their actions.

Be honest. You probably lose your ability to get hard on after too much booze.