"Religious bigotry" is an overused term. - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

SeattleUte · 11-30-2006, 05:29 PM

Actually, I seldom see the term "religious bigotry" used except among Mormons (whose skin I have seen grow thinner in my lifetime). When you think about it, billing yourself as the only true faith, and agressively proseletyzing your creed to adherants of competing faiths as well as agnostics and aetheists--threatening them with at least a form of eternal damnation if they don't embrace your faith--could itself be called a form of religious bigotry. Indeed, the chauvenistic outlook and claim to superior moral authority is why religion since the Enlightenment has attracted such heated criticism and indeed ridicule. It comes with the territory of being a "major religion," to which I assume the LDS faith aspires.

Listen up, it's not necessarily "religious bigotry" to poke fun at or critique religion. We all instinctively know this when the object of the criticism or fun making isn't our own faith. Most Westerners defended that Danish rag's right to ridicule Mohammed. Blues Brothers' ridicule of a nun's habit was hilarious. But Andrew Sullivan's mild fun poking at and critiquing of Mormonism and "garments" is most amphatically offensive, beyond the pale. Why? Near as I can tell because those offended regard Joseph Smith as a true prophet and Mohammed and the Popes as false ones. (See, e.g., Rocky's inevitable response to this post.) Well, tell that to Andrew Sullivan; I'm sure it will chasten him.

RockyBalboa · 11-30-2006, 05:40 PM

Is it bigotry to critique why white people can't jump or dance?

Archaea · 11-30-2006, 05:41 PM

I'm thicky skinned than most and probably thicker skulled, but some people should exercise some discretion.

For example, most would not find it funny, nor even try to make fun of a Jew by exaggerating a nose, ridiculing a yamulka or ridiculing a Pope. I don't remember the Blue's Brother ridicule of the habit, so I plead ignorance.

I wouldn't make fun of somebody in jest due to skin color, but some do.

Bigotry is probably a bad label, but callousness is probably a more appropriate label.

My question is, why don't bloggers take to posting visuals of a Hasidic Jew's long underwear?

jay santos · 11-30-2006, 05:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

Actually, I seldom see the term "religious bigotry" used except among Mormons (whose skin I have seen grow thinner in my lifetime). When you think about it, billing yourself as the only true faith, and agressively proseletyzing your creed to adherants of competing faiths as well as agnostics and aetheists--threatening them with at least a form of eternal damnation if they don't embrace your faith--could itself be called a form of religious bigotry. Indeed, the chauvenistic outlook and claim to superior moral authority is why religion since the Enlightenment has attracted such heated criticism and indeed ridicule. It comes with the territory of being a "major religion," to which I assume the LDS faith aspires.

Listen up, it's not necessarily "religious bigotry" to poke fun at or critique religion. We all instinctively know this when the object of the criticism or fun making isn't our own faith. Most Westerners defended that Danish rag's right to ridicule Mohammed. Blues Brothers' ridicule of a nun's habit was hilarious. But Andrew Sullivan's mild fun poking at and critiquing of Mormonism and "garments" is most amphatically offensive, beyond the pale. Why? Near as I can tell because those offended regard Joseph Smith as a true prophet and Mohammed and the Popes as false ones. (See, e.g., Rocky's inevitable response to this post.) Well, tell that to Andrew Sullivan; I'm sure it will chasten him.

When a Time magazine poll says 35% of Americans would not consider voting for a Mormon for president, I would consider that an example of religious bigotry.

If I would not even consider a black candidate, I'm racist. female candidate, misogynist. LDS candidate, bigot. 35% is a pretty large number.

SeattleUte · 11-30-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

When a Time magazine poll says 35% of Americans would not consider voting for a Mormon for president, I would consider that an example of religious bigotry.

If I would not even consider a black candidate, I'm racist. female candidate, misogynist. LDS candidate, bigot. 35% is a pretty large number.

I didn't say there was no such thing as religious bigotry. Just that it's an overused term, especially, from my perspective, among Mormons.

By the way, I'm sure large percentages would say they'd never vote for a Jew or a Catholic, if they were honest. We've had in our history no Jewish and only one Catholic president. Besides Kennedy I believe they've all been protestants. (Pretty amazing, really, how rife this country is with religious bigotry.) So Mormons can stand in line.

Detroitdad · 11-30-2006, 05:56 PM

I am truly amazed that Mormons do not see more religious bigotry. It is real, it is dangerous, and it is rampant as far as my experience goes. Bigotry must be contrasted with ignorance, which is not such a big problem. But the statistics that Santos quotes should be troublesome to anyone of any political stripe and any religion.

SeattleUte · 11-30-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

I am truly amazed that Mormons do not see more religious bigotry. It is real, it is dangerous, and it is rampant as far as my experience goes. Bigotry must be contrasted with ignorance, which is not such a big problem. But the statistics that Santos quotes should be troublesome to anyone of any political stripe and any religion.

When you have freedom of religion, and religious observance a huge component of your heritage and culture, what you get is a country rife with religious bigotry. It's the nature of the beast. Ironically, the most bigoted against religions are usually the most religious folks.

Archaea · 11-30-2006, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

When you have freedom of religion, and religious observance a huge component of your heritage and culture, what you get is a country rife with religious bigotry. It's the nature of the beast. Ironically, the most bigoted against religions are usually the most religious folks.

I'm not certain I'd agree with that last observation. Secular humanists are routinely bigoted against religion, but religious persons can also be very bigoted. So what, we should get on with life. Knock the shit out of them if you have to.

jay santos · 11-30-2006, 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I didn't say there was no such thing as religious bigotry. Just that it's an overused term, especially, from my perspective, among Mormons.

By the way, I'm sure large percentages would say they'd never vote for a Jew or a Catholic, if they were honest. We've had in our history no Jewish and only one Catholic president. Besides Kennedy I believe they've all been protestants. (Pretty amazing, really, how rife this country is with religious bigotry.) So Mormons can stand in line.

The poll included Jews and Catholics and Mormons were dead last.

BigFatMeanie · 11-30-2006, 06:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jay santos

The poll included Jews and Catholics and Mormons were dead last.

If I recall correctly, Mormons weren't dead last - they were second to last. Mormons were viewed more favorably than Muslims

11-30-2006, 05:29 PM	#1
SeattleUte fairlds.org Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Seattle, WA Posts: 10,665	"Religious bigotry" is an overused term. Actually, I seldom see the term "religious bigotry" used except among Mormons (whose skin I have seen grow thinner in my lifetime). When you think about it, billing yourself as the only true faith, and agressively proseletyzing your creed to adherants of competing faiths as well as agnostics and aetheists--threatening them with at least a form of eternal damnation if they don't embrace your faith--could itself be called a form of religious bigotry. Indeed, the chauvenistic outlook and claim to superior moral authority is why religion since the Enlightenment has attracted such heated criticism and indeed ridicule. It comes with the territory of being a "major religion," to which I assume the LDS faith aspires. Listen up, it's not necessarily "religious bigotry" to poke fun at or critique religion. We all instinctively know this when the object of the criticism or fun making isn't our own faith. Most Westerners defended that Danish rag's right to ridicule Mohammed. Blues Brothers' ridicule of a nun's habit was hilarious. But Andrew Sullivan's mild fun poking at and critiquing of Mormonism and "garments" is most amphatically offensive, beyond the pale. Why? Near as I can tell because those offended regard Joseph Smith as a true prophet and Mohammed and the Popes as false ones. (See, e.g., Rocky's inevitable response to this post.) Well, tell that to Andrew Sullivan; I'm sure it will chasten him. __________________ Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be. —Paul Auster Last edited by SeattleUte; 11-30-2006 at 05:32 PM.

11-30-2006, 05:40 PM	#2
RockyBalboa Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Salt Lake City Posts: 7,297	Is it bigotry to critique why white people can't jump or dance? __________________ Masquerading as Cougarguards very own genius dumbass since 05'.

11-30-2006, 05:41 PM	#3
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	I'm thicky skinned than most and probably thicker skulled, but some people should exercise some discretion. For example, most would not find it funny, nor even try to make fun of a Jew by exaggerating a nose, ridiculing a yamulka or ridiculing a Pope. I don't remember the Blue's Brother ridicule of the habit, so I plead ignorance. I wouldn't make fun of somebody in jest due to skin color, but some do. Bigotry is probably a bad label, but callousness is probably a more appropriate label. My question is, why don't bloggers take to posting visuals of a Hasidic Jew's long underwear? __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

11-30-2006, 05:56 PM	#6
Detroitdad Resident Jackass Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Roswell, New Mexico Posts: 1,846	I am truly amazed that Mormons do not see more religious bigotry. It is real, it is dangerous, and it is rampant as far as my experience goes. Bigotry must be contrasted with ignorance, which is not such a big problem. But the statistics that Santos quotes should be troublesome to anyone of any political stripe and any religion.