Kill the wild horses to give ranchers more grass

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Venkman

Opposition to wolves = contempt for the land? Interesting. Grampa was a cattle rancher in central Idaho and he'd beg to differ. Actually, he'd probably just kick your ass.

Don't touch the wolves. Wolves > cows.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Levin

Here's a great collection of essays from authors with various backgrounds (economists, scientists, conservationists). It's called: "Welfare Ranching: The Subsidized Destruction of the American West." And this is just the tip of the iceberg.

http://www.amazon.com/Welfare-Ranchi.../dp/1559639431

What a bunch of f...ing pussies, full of shit and hate.

Of course there are counter-arguments by those who wish to diminish our food supplies and to destroy the frontier traditions, but to hell with them. The subsidization argument is pure horseshit. I challenge these persons to actually investigate the lands which they describe. I've lived in these lands most of life, have friends and family in the business, and traveled the lands a hundred times more than these pussy-ass conservationists. It's pure agenda speaking, they've targeted ranchers from a long time, and aim to destroy the tradition and the food source. Sure ship it all off to Argentina or Australia.

The argument the conservationists try to raise is that government by allowing what appears to be inexpensive leases for arid, desolate land is somehow charging less than market rates. But they compare apples to oranges. The lands for which they endeavor to draw comparisons are not equal, and the support which the government landlord provides is minimal. It is truly not a fair or accurate comparison. Yes the conservationists compile their allies, who make arguments without really evaluating the data, but there is no welfare ranching. The is a royal misnomer and a lie.

[MikeWaters]

I still haven't found a source that says welfare ranching prevents forest fires.

I know in Idaho environmentalists are fighting the welfare ranchers by bidding or applying for the leases, and winning. I applaud the effort.

[Mars]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I've never heard that cattle are important to prevent fires. Do we have a source for that one?

That's actually true. It's much harder and more expensive for humans to do. Even using chainsaws and such, not our mouths.

[Levin]

It's more than just about the economic subsidies cattle ranchers receive. If Iowa corn farmers get them, then I don't see why cattle ranchers shouldn't. It's that the balance of power has been so out of whack in terms of who dictates land use policy, where the ranchers have been dominant, and it has destroyed the lands of the arid west.

With more sensible management, the cows could stay, the cattle ranchers maintain their way of life, and the land could begin to recover. But the ranchers never want to give an inch.

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I still haven't found a source that says welfare ranching prevents forest fires.

I know in Idaho environmentalists are fighting the welfare ranchers by bidding or applying for the leases, and winning. I applaud the effort.

Mike wants to jump into bed with SuperMarvel......

With respect to Brother John Marvel and the miracle that his useless ass stays alive when he chooses to venture out of the People's Republic of Blaine County, at least his method replaces the lost revenue to the government coffers.

For the record, I don't applaud the effort and I hope that SuperMarvel and Mike Waters both contract a case of syphilus. Watch out for my curses as the last person I threw down on was Ben Olsen! I do hope Farrah comes out unscathed, however...it is the chivalry imbued upon me at our Nation's Holiest of Holies Military Schools!

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I still haven't found a source that says welfare ranching prevents forest fires.

I know in Idaho environmentalists are fighting the welfare ranchers by bidding or applying for the leases, and winning. I applaud the effort.

Mike this is not complicated. Cows eat grass. In the late summer tall grass gets dry. Lightning strikes. Tall, in almost all cases uneaten grass, catches fire. Fire spreads to forest fire. Make an argument that the cows eat too much and go poop all over the place which does more damage than forest fires, or that forest fires are part of the natural rejuvenation of intermountain forests/grasslands but you are savy enough to figure out how keeping grass down prevents fires in August and Septemeber.

John Marvel pussifying of you is clouding your occasional good judgement.

God bless the Bovine and the ranching US famalies that protect our public lands!

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Mike this is not complicated. Cows eat grass. In the late summer tall grass gets dry. Lightning strikes. Tall, in almost all cases uneaten grass, catches fire. Fire spreads to forest fire. Make an argument that the cows eat too much and go poop all over the place which does more damage than forest fires, or that forest fires are part of the natural rejuvenation of intermountain forests/grasslands but you are savy enough to figure out how keeping grass down prevents fires in August and Septemeber.

John Marvel pussifying of you is clouding your occasional good judgement.

God bless the Bovine and the ranching US famalies that protect our public lands!

So cows are the only animals that eat grass?

What kind of education did they give you in Idaho and West Point?

[Goatnapper'96]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

So cows are the only animals that eat grass?

What kind of education did they give you in Idaho and West Point?

Many animals eat grass, each one that does decreases the chance of forest fire, including cows. Further, cows tend to be one of the most inneffecient animals in existence in that they tend to eat more grass per pound than other animals. Hence, cows eat more grass than other animals thus having the highest per pound impact on fire fuel source depletion. Some biolgists recommend that the western cattle industry should move to more sheep as sheep are far more effecient. Other like yourself want to live in an ivory tower imagining the land teaming with elk, quail and thumper beating on his log.

For the record I have had no education in Idaho, my public school education was in the progressive state of California. Tell SuperMarvel I said hello!

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

Many animals eat grass, each one that does decreases the chance of forest fire, including cows. Further, cows tend to be one of the most inneffecient animals in existence in that they tend to eat more grass per pound than other animals. Hence, cows eat more grass than other animals thus having the highest per pound impact on fire fuel source depletion. Some biolgists recommend that the western cattle industry should move to more sheep as sheep are far more effecient. Other like yourself want to live in an ivory tower imagining the land teaming with elk, quail and thumper beating on his log.

For the record I have had no education in Idaho, my public school education was in the progressive state of California. Tell SuperMarvel I said hello!

Sheep pull the grass up from the root. So denude the entire west?

Why is it that people in the West are the ones who care least about the West? I think it is because of their hardscrabble lives. Money is the end-all be-all for these poor people. Even when they aren't poor they still feel the same way. The land is there to be raped.

I'll bet my great-aunt who is in her 70s and every year digs out leftover potatoes in Idaho (for free) so she can survive the winter, I'll bet she doesn't give a damn about horses, wolfs, denuding federal land, etc. I'll bet she does care about money and food.