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Old 05-20-2008, 03:46 PM   #1
TheSizzle36
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Default Getting back into 5k Shape.

So I am trying to get back into 5k shape again after not running in way too long of a time. I've gotten out and ran about 1.5 miles on Monday and increased my distance to about 2 miles this morning. My goal is to get to the point where I can run a 5k in about 27-28 minutes, which is a pretty lofty goal for me. My previous best is right around a 10 minute mile for a 5k, and I'd like to ultimately get it down to about 8:30-9:00 as an average minute per mile. I know that as I lose weight, it will help with both endurance and speed.

However, my biggest question for the runners here is what is the best way to train? Should I start out trying to keep the pace of about 9:00 for shorter runs and see how long I can maintain that? Or am I going to be better to try and build up my endurance and try to run around 4 miles first and slowly increase my speed that way? Or, is it better to find a balance of runs, some working on building endurance, and some working on increasing my speed? Any help is appreciated.
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:48 PM   #2
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You're looking at this incorrectly.

At the speeds you're mentioning, you need to build endurance first. You have no foundation, and worrying about speed will only cause injuries and disappointment.

Read about your endurance foundation before you worry at all about speed.

With that said, how many days per week are you running?

Are you running the same every day? If so, that's your first mistake. You need to vary workouts so that your fitness improves with less work.

A base will take about three to six months. Until you can run five miles easily, you should not worry about speed. Speed fitness comes last of all.

However, the times you're seeking can come entirely through endurance training.

Increase mileage by ten percent per week, for three weeks and then back off during week four.
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:52 PM   #3
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Now isn't really the time to worry about your speed. IMO, you want to go out and build up some base miles at whatever pace is comfortable for you. Your heart/lungs will begin to respond first, becoming comfortable with increasingly long runs. Beware though that your legs will need more babying and it's very easy to get hurt at first, especially when you're feeling like you have increased endurance. Try to up your weekly distance by only 10%.

After you've put in some good base miles and you've increased your run distances to say 3 or 4 miles a pop you can start working on speed. I saw a decent increase in speed when I did 1 speed workout/wk. I would typically run a 5k at the fastest possible pace I could. This usually left me wanting to vomit. The other speed workout I do is to run intervals of about .25 miles at top speed several times during an otherwise normal run. In addition to that speed workout I did another run during the week of 6 or 7 miles at a slightly less than comfortable but very doable pace and then a Saturday LSD (long slow distance) run of 9-13 miles at a very comfortable pace. Beware that speedwork seems to make one vulnerable to injury. My experience has been that most of my injuries have occurred on speedwork days.

Last edited by SteelBlue; 05-20-2008 at 04:55 PM.
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Old 05-20-2008, 04:57 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
You're looking at this incorrectly.

At the speeds you're mentioning, you need to build endurance first. You have no foundation, and worrying about speed will only cause injuries and disappointment.

Read about your endurance foundation before you worry at all about speed.

With that said, how many days per week are you running?

Are you running the same every day? If so, that's your first mistake. You need to vary workouts so that your fitness improves with less work.

A base will take about three to six months. Until you can run five miles easily, you should not worry about speed. Speed fitness comes last of all.

However, the times you're seeking can come entirely through endurance training.

Increase mileage by ten percent per week, for three weeks and then back off during week four.
I didn't see your post before I typed mine, I swear. At least we agree on just about everything.
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Old 05-20-2008, 05:51 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post
You're looking at this incorrectly.

At the speeds you're mentioning, you need to build endurance first. You have no foundation, and worrying about speed will only cause injuries and disappointment.

Read about your endurance foundation before you worry at all about speed.

With that said, how many days per week are you running?

Are you running the same every day? If so, that's your first mistake. You need to vary workouts so that your fitness improves with less work.

A base will take about three to six months. Until you can run five miles easily, you should not worry about speed. Speed fitness comes last of all.

However, the times you're seeking can come entirely through endurance training.

Increase mileage by ten percent per week, for three weeks and then back off during week four.
I'll probably end up running about 3-4 times a week. Probably a Monday-Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday schedule, although I could easily add in Wednesday.

Right now I'm just getting started again. Last year I ran anywhere from 2-5 miles about 4 times a week. I know what I've been able to do previously, and I am not an endurance runner at all. Right now when I run, I start off at a pace in the 8:30 mile range and run and that pace for around a half mile. My legs get a bit sore, so I usually slow the pace back down to around a 10:30 mile or walk for a bit, then go again. Maybe I should clarify that I 'jog" and don't "run".

From Steel and Arch's advise though, it sounds like my best bet is going to be to get back to a point where I can go the full 3-4 miles at a consistent pace, and then have a workout or two a week where I go longer, and another one where I focus more on "bursts" or shorter, quicker runs. That will be good for me, I just need to get into the routine and figure out where I'll be making my runs at.
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Old 05-20-2008, 06:06 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by TheSizzle36 View Post
I'll probably end up running about 3-4 times a week. Probably a Monday-Tuesday-Thursday-Saturday schedule, although I could easily add in Wednesday.

Right now I'm just getting started again. Last year I ran anywhere from 2-5 miles about 4 times a week. I know what I've been able to do previously, and I am not an endurance runner at all. Right now when I run, I start off at a pace in the 8:30 mile range and run and that pace for around a half mile. My legs get a bit sore, so I usually slow the pace back down to around a 10:30 mile or walk for a bit, then go again. Maybe I should clarify that I 'jog" and don't "run".

From Steel and Arch's advise though, it sounds like my best bet is going to be to get back to a point where I can go the full 3-4 miles at a consistent pace, and then have a workout or two a week where I go longer, and another one where I focus more on "bursts" or shorter, quicker runs. That will be good for me, I just need to get into the routine and figure out where I'll be making my runs at.

Try this, don't run the 8:30 pace, but start off very slowly. In a race, it's okay to sprint then fade, but not for general training. That's counterproductive.

Start with three days and expand to four days once you determine how your body responds.

First things first, find good fitting shoes.

Do different runs, not the same one every day.

Second, examine your form. Are you setting your feet down gently? How are you running? Are your arms relaxed?

Find some partners. Many people fare better if they have to be there to meet others. I run alone much of the time but many people don't favor that approach. During speed work, you'll need others to push you. At least I do.

More running is not always better. I can run a marathon, albeit not always record pace, on three runs per week. I have one tempo/brick day, one speed day and one long day. So just adding runs is not necessary.

For you, you need consistency, and wise running. Listen to the ligaments, the knees, and the hips and focus upon getting stronger wisely over time.
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Last edited by Archaea; 05-20-2008 at 06:08 PM.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:08 PM   #7
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Try this, don't run the 8:30 pace, but start off very slowly. In a race, it's okay to sprint then fade, but not for general training. That's counterproductive.
I wouldn't say the 8:30 pace is sprinting for me, it is just not a pace that I can currently maintain for longer than say a half mile. At that point I trail off.

Quote:
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Start with three days and expand to four days once you determine how your body responds.

First things first, find good fitting shoes.

Do different runs, not the same one every day.
The different routes should be easy to accomplish. I may set up a schedule where on Mondays I try for a 5k type run, Thursdays I do a shorter 1.5-2 mile "speed" type run, and then Saturdays go for a longer run, in the 5 mile range for now and increase it. If my body is able to do this without too much stress, I'd add in another run on Tuesday most likely.

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Second, examine your form. Are you setting your feet down gently? How are you running? Are your arms relaxed?
I don't know that I could answer that question. My arms are fairly relaxed, but I don't know the slightest about stride or how hard I am setting my feet down. Do good running stores know how to answer these questions and, tying into an earlier point, would they be able to help me find good shoes for me? (If so, any recommendations?)

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For you, you need consistency, and wise running. Listen to the ligaments, the knees, and the hips and focus upon getting stronger wisely over time.
Sounds like a plan. My feet and legs are a bit sore today, not too bad, but the type of sore when they haven't been used in a while. I'll take tomorrow off before I go for it again on Thursday.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:16 PM   #8
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I wouldn't say the 8:30 pace is sprinting for me, it is just not a pace that I can currently maintain for longer than say a half mile. At that point I trail off.
My point is, if you can't hold an 8:30 beyond a half mile, then that speed is too fast. The first half mile should be a warm up and your fastest pace should be in the midst of your run or during the last third of your run. From a training perspective, this approach is healthier.

Heck for world class marathoners, 6:00 miles are jogs, so everything is relative.

I would not wear a watch at first, but run by feel until you can attain a level pace for five miles. If you vary over a three mile training run, then you need a deeper base.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:20 PM   #9
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I don't know that I could answer that question. My arms are fairly relaxed, but I don't know the slightest about stride or how hard I am setting my feet down. Do good running stores know how to answer these questions and, tying into an earlier point, would they be able to help me find good shoes for me? (If so, any recommendations?
What sound do you hear as your foot plants? If it's a gentle sound, then you're doing it correctly, if it's a thud, you're doing it incorrectly.

There are different theories whether you land midsole or heel but that's too complex for now.

What are your hands doing? Are they open, balled or clenched? You should be able to hold a tissue between your index and thumb but so lightly it would almost fall out.

What is the swing of your arms? Gentle and forward or thrashing? I thrash often. Not good.

What are you doing with your jaw? Loose.

What posture are you using?

Correct form early will benefit you later on.

You cannot just run, you must learn to run in a healthy form.
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Old 05-20-2008, 07:35 PM   #10
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My point is, if you can't hold an 8:30 beyond a half mile, then that speed is too fast. The first half mile should be a warm up and your fastest pace should be in the midst of your run or during the last third of your run. From a training perspective, this approach is healthier.

Heck for world class marathoners, 6:00 miles are jogs, so everything is relative.

I would not wear a watch at first, but run by feel until you can attain a level pace for five miles. If you vary over a three mile training run, then you need a deeper base.
Last year when I was starting out, I would set a marker along my run as a point I needed to get to. So I would start out running at a consistent pace to the stop sign. Then my next run, it would be to the golf course, then after that, it was the stop sign after the golf course, and at that point I found I could go about the full 5k at a fairly consistent pace. Good method for increasing my endurance foundation?
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