cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board  

Go Back   cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board > non-Sports > Current Events

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-14-2007, 03:13 AM   #11
il Padrino Ute
Board Pinhead
 
il Padrino Ute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah.
Posts: 15,941
il Padrino Ute is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
The problem with the scientific method is it can't just decide on what's true and stop looking. It drives you nuts the way it comes up with new and different truths all the time, and it just snow balls.
That sounds like a reason to embrace religion. It finds it's version of the truth and stops looking.
__________________
"The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver

"This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.
il Padrino Ute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:14 AM   #12
SoonerCoug
Formerly known as MudPhudCoug
 
SoonerCoug's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Land of desolation
Posts: 2,548
SoonerCoug is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
That sounds like a reason to embrace religion. It finds it's version of the truth and stops looking.
I think Mormonism keeps looking. That's why we have revelation.
SoonerCoug is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:16 AM   #13
il Padrino Ute
Board Pinhead
 
il Padrino Ute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah.
Posts: 15,941
il Padrino Ute is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SoonerCoug View Post
I think Mormonism keeps looking. That's why we have revelation.
I agree with this. I was just trying to have some fun with SU knowing how he feels about religion in general.
__________________
"The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver

"This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.
il Padrino Ute is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:16 AM   #14
woot
Senior Member
 
woot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,502
woot is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekster View Post
Relax, friend. Check my posts, you will see that no one, not even your buddy Soonercoug, has pitched more on behalf of science and evolution than me. Even so, Tooblue's point in THIS thread is not invalid and it is simply not dishonest nor is it intellectually bankrupt. You may find it annoying (although I find it hard to believe you have been here long enough to for this to be true of Tooblue or me), but to try to shout him down because of what you think he means as opposed to what he says is, I am sure you would agree, not a healthy approach to learning or to dialog.

Besides, in your response you answered several arguments, but none of them had been made by me. For example, you will look in vain to find anywhere, and I mean anywhere in any thread, where I have suggested that evolution is not supported by ample evidence. Moreover, despite what Tooblue may or may not believe, in this thread he doens't say anything about evolution, per se, so why are you so eager to beat this drum? If you want to have a good discussion, it is always useful to actually talk about the same thing, eh?
Most of my comments were directed at him, not you. Also, I would prefer that you not use the phrase "shout him down," as it implies I'm trying to censor him or something. I obviously enjoy debating. I don't think I was beating any drum. I was using evolution as an example of something that we absolutely know, and the topic of the article as a piece of trivia that doesn't affect much.
woot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:21 AM   #15
creekster
Senior Member
 
creekster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: the far corner of my mind
Posts: 8,711
creekster is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by woot View Post
Most of my comments were directed at him, not you. Also, I would prefer that you not use the phrase "shout him down," as it implies I'm trying to censor him or something. I obviously enjoy debating. I don't think I was beating any drum. I was using evolution as an example of something that we absolutely know, and the topic of the article as a piece of trivia that doesn't affect much.
Quite honestly, as I thought I made pretty clear in the first post, it looked to me like you were indeed trying to shout him down. If you weren't, then I am glad to hear it. However, just as I will take you at your word as to what you meant, as opposed to rely on what it seemed to me like you meant, I am sure you will do the same for Tooblue or others.

Most of us like a good debate here, so you will fit in fine, I am sure.
__________________
Sorry for th e tpyos.
creekster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:23 AM   #16
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekster View Post
In fact, Tooblue's point is that "scientists" who claimed they "know" the age of fossils have in fact really engaged in a form of belief, relying on the accuracy of the methods available to them which can change and then the state of their "knowledge" changes. So for your average schmuck like me, it is just a belief. I think this position is well-supported by his posted links and by the reality of a pursuit for knowledge, even one rigorously based on the scientific method.
The problem, however, is when people use the inevitable tendency of scientific knowledge to change as a rationalization for failure of religious fundamentalism to find any support in empricism or reason, or worse, as tooblue seems to do, as a basis for arguing that there is no such thing as objectively verifiable truth. Is it really so hard to appreciate that endless testing and reassesment of received truths is part and parcel of empiricism? Can the same thing be said of religion? On the contrary. Is it so hard to appreciate that incremental accumulation of objectively verifiable truth is (perhaps paradoxically) as well part and parcel of empricism, and what saves us from ignorance? I wish I understood better what tooblue's point was. He keeps stating the obvious but conclusions he draws from such unsurprising developments in scientific fields seem bizarre, if I get them, and I'm not sure I do.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:25 AM   #17
non sequitur
Senior Member
 
non sequitur's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,964
non sequitur is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by creekster View Post
In fact, Tooblue's point is that "scientists" who claimed they "know" the age of fossils have in fact really engaged in a form of belief, relying on the accuracy of the methods available to them which can change and then the state of their "knowledge" changes. So for your average schmuck like me, it is just a belief. I think this position is well-supported by his posted links and by the reality of a pursuit for knowledge, even one rigorously based on the scientific method.
At least with science there is a method. Perhaps what the scientists should do is pray about the age of the earth, and then when they get a peaceful feeling they can declare that they've had a spiritual witness and that they can then unequivocally state the true age of the earth.
__________________
...You've been under attack for days, there's a soldier down, he's wounded, gangrene's setting in, 'Who's used all the penicillin?' 'Oh, Mark Paxson sir, he's got knob rot off of some tart.'" - Gareth Keenan
non sequitur is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:27 AM   #18
SeattleUte
 
SeattleUte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 10,665
SeattleUte has a little shameless behaviour in the past
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
That sounds like a reason to embrace religion. It finds it's version of the truth and stops looking.
You missed my sarcasm. I explained byself better in my reply to creekster. But I'll put it even more directly. Science isn't ashamed of changing its conclusions. It's what science is all about, what science does, for crying out loud. But it doesn't mean science is all bullshit, as tooblue seems to believe. Science would cease to be science if it ever announced it had all the answers, and definitively so. It would have become religion.
__________________
Interrupt all you like. We're involved in a complicated story here, and not everything is quite what it seems to be.

—Paul Auster
SeattleUte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:29 AM   #19
woot
Senior Member
 
woot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Denver
Posts: 1,502
woot is on a distinguished road
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by non sequitur View Post
At least with science there is a method. Perhaps what the scientists should do is pray about the age of the earth, and then when they get a peaceful feeling they can declare that they've had a spiritual witness and that they can then unequivocally state the true age of the earth.
That's good stuff. I often wonder if that really is what they'd prefer.
woot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2007, 03:30 AM   #20
il Padrino Ute
Board Pinhead
 
il Padrino Ute's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah.
Posts: 15,941
il Padrino Ute is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeattleUte View Post
You missed my sarcasm. I explained byself better in my reply to creekster. But I'll put it even more directly. Science isn't ashamed of changing its conclusions. It's what science is all about, what science does, for crying out loud. But it doesn't mean science is all bullshit, as tooblue seems to believe. Science would cease to be science if it ever announced it had all the answers, and definitively so. It would have become religion.
And you missed my sarcasm. Next time, I'll use the little winking smiley.
__________________
"The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver

"This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.
il Padrino Ute is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 11:32 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.