Zionism's future?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

you dont really think that Zionists would be pleased to just own a limited part of the earth with a successful,republican ...blah ..blah sort of government?? do you?? if yes your naiveness is really admirable.

Zionists will what they may, but our world might be better off, had the Zionists considered another option, because Israeli industry, technological advances and knowhow would have caused a nation founded by Jews in South America to have succeeded beyond our wildest dreams without the military conflict.

We were fools to make the Zionist pledge in the thirties and forties, as it has created an extra tension that didn't have to be there.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Zionists will what they may, but our world might be better off, had the Zionists considered another option, because Israeli industry, technological advances and knowhow would have caused a nation founded by Jews in South America to have succeeded beyond our wildest dreams without the military conflict.

We were fools to make the Zionist pledge in the thirties and forties, as it has created an extra tension that didn't have to be there.

This is hopelessly revisionist. I'm not going to say that the process was handled flawlessly, but we have no way of knowing how things would've turned out otherwise. Adopting this imaginary world where "South American Israel" is a prosperous, thriving democracy and the Middle East is tensionless and peaceful is just utopian.

I am firmly of the opinion that at it's foundation, the Arab world's complaints about Zionism are superficial. Israel is just an excuse for a powerful anti-west antipathy. Having it there inflames the wound perhaps, but the problem runs much deeper.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Tex

I am firmly of the opinion that at it's foundation, the Arab world's complaints are superficial. Israel is just an excuse for a powerful anti-west antipathy. Having Israel there inflames the wound perhaps, but the problem runs much deeper.

You are correct. Israel is only a minor subset of radical Islam's issues with the West.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You are correct. Israel is only a minor subset of radical Islam's issues with the West.

Israel is a handy excuse.

We would still experience problems there due to oil, poverty, oppressive regimes, and a tyrranical religious set, but we might not be there as often but for Israel.

[Detroitdad]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You are correct. Israel is only a minor subset of radical Islam's issues with the West.

Minor subset is underselling a bit. Western support for Israel does a great deal to help recruit, mobilize and radicalize the institutions of radical Islam and to drum up financial support. Israel is not the only cause, but it certainly is a catalyst in radicalization.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

You are correct. Israel is only a minor subset of radical Islam's issues with the West.

with the "minor" difference,that radical islam doesnot get support and financial help from mainstream muslims (if not all) but israel lives on americans huge relief.

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

with the "minor" difference,that radical islam doesnot get support and financial help from mainstream muslims (if not all) but israel lives on americans huge relief.

How many great Jewish scientists do you know versus great Iranian scientists? I rest my case. The Jews were contributing more to the world long before Israel ever existed.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Israel is a handy excuse.

We would still experience problems there due to oil, poverty, oppressive regimes, and a tyrranical religious set, but we might not be there as often but for Israel.

i wonder how you welcome this possibility that without vigorously foreigne countries engaging in the region to watch oil trafficking and supporting israel existence ,radical islam wouldnot dare to improve?

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by SoonerCoug

How many great Jewish scientists do you know versus great Iranian scientists? I rest my case. The Jews were contributing more to the world long before Israel ever existed.

and how many great jews scholars you know that would principally defend "zionism" theory?

[SoonerCoug]

Originally Posted by mindfulcoug

and how many great jews scholars you know that would principally defend "zionism" theory?

There is no such thing as valid claim of "historical ownership of land" in my opinion. The Jews had no claim when they took Israel, except they basically bought it, so it was mostly legal.

At the same time, what is settled is settled. The palestinians could have their own nation if their militants would choose peace instead. There are plenty of palestinian citizens of Israel who have the right to vote.

Why don't we just turn back the clock and go to borders from the year 900 AD? At some point you just have to accept that Israel exists no matter how it came into existing. I'd argue that the Israelis aren't completely bad--at least they built the only 1st would country in the middle east.