Anyone ever caught themselves saying...

[outlier]

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

nobody expects you to. But the truth is that you had the experiences you had in Utah because you either chose to have them or you allowed them to happen.

The truth is *also* that experiences were in some part contributed to by the environment. I mean, I can not wear a coat in North Dakota and freeze to death or I can not wear a coat in SoCal and *not* freeze to death. Yes, I could have chosen to wear a coat in North Dakota, but if were in California, I wouldn't have had to.

It seems like a wise course to put oneself in an environment where making "good decisions" comes more easily.

O

[VAX77]

What I will also say is that my experiences in Utah that I disliked the most were in Salt Lake County, where I lived for about 10 months. I am not an expert, but I know what I saw. There is a difference in LDS culture outside of Utah because of the concentration of LDS. For example, I will never see these things were I live now:

Families not letting their kids play with neighbor (gasp!!! non-member kids) (that does happen more in utah)

billboards talking about polygamy (which there were coming into SLC from the north and going into Utah county from the south)

Baptists at the BBQ billboards

radio stations with DJ's trying to shock the mormon listeners

people and businesses profiting off of the fact that many people are LDS such as dressed in white, knee shorts stores, etc.

ute fans bashing mormons at games

about 40 MLM comapnies(I use the term companies loosely) per square mile

letters to the editor in the universe about how the Passion of the Christ (I am not endorsing the movie) is the worse thing since godmakers 7, and yet packed dollar movie theatres showing austin powers....

It is enough to make me sick. We are peculiar people, but it does not mean we are a retarded people with no taste does it?

People going to Church for social reasons or so they won't be frowned upon by the community or screwed in business deals (It happens outside of Utah, but let's face it, it is much more predominant in the beehive state)

The whole raise the bar thing came from kids doing whatever they wanted until 18 with the intention that they would repent and go out by 19. I did not see this in my wards growing up. It also happened elsewhere, but wherever there were high concentrations of LDS, you would see more of this. I know guys who screwed up and went on missions outside of Utah, but they did not pre-meditate the acts and plan repentence. There is a huge difference.

I had a lot of great friends who were real and insulated me from these things on a day to day basis. Until I stepped outside. Hey, Utah was a great time for me. I met my wife, attended BYu(a great school!!!) and made great friends. But, I am glad to be gone. By the way, it is the same in SLC, in case you utes wanna take this and bash BYU or BYU alum. Don't kid yourselves.

[il Padrino Ute]

The truth is *also* that experiences were in some part contributed to by the environment. I mean, I can not wear a coat in North Dakota and freeze to death or I can not wear a coat in SoCal and *not* freeze to death. Yes, I could have chosen to wear a coat in North Dakota, but if were in California, I wouldn't have had to.

It seems like a wise course to put oneself in an environment where making "good decisions" comes more easily.

O[/quote]

That's a good point. The cultural environment can certainly dictate how one makes decisions. Still, I stand by my point that one gets out of living in Utah - or anywhere else for that matter - exactly what one wants.

Of course, I make these statements as someone who was born, rasied and now lives in Salt Lake County. I've never had the desire to live anywhere near the Orem/Provo area, as I just can't stand those people.

[il Padrino Ute]

Originally Posted by VAX77

ute fans bashing mormons at games

I don't like this either, as I've experienced it myself. However, I can say with most assurity that the vast majority these people of which you speak are not Ute fans. They are anti-LDS types that use the rivalry to bash the Church. They're rarely, if ever, sitting in the stands at RES except once every other year.

[UtahDan]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

Unless, of course, one limits the experiment to climate and weather.

Why do so many make this assumption? The school's demographics show otherwise (only 26 percent from Utah). It's more like a little colony of LDS American 20-somethings, a big 30,000 member singles ward with boundaries that encompass the U.S., if not the world. I suspect the attitudes and norms that one encounters at BYU are reflective of LDS culture in general, not exclusive to or caused by the local Utah culture. It is also safe to assume that most non-Utah BYU students have a limited idea of what it is like to really live in Utah, yet so many return after their years in Provo as self-appointed experts on, and many times, scoffers at how things are there.

Now I'm just getting cranky. I also have a better understanding of one reason why our Ute Fan brethren might find some BYU alums to be hard to take.

You're correct, you are the authority on your own contrarian self. I just believe that in the end, most people make choices because they are convinced of the correctness of the way, not based on the number of others choosing it. Even in Utah.

Allow me to comment on a few of your observations. I agree with you that the BYU community is not your typical Utah community. I would disagree, however, that it is your typical young LDS community either. Without exploring motivations too deeply, I think it is fair to say that among those students who have their choice of higher education (and there are MANY in the church) those who elect BYU versus those who elect a good school where they live are just different breeds of cat. At least one component of this has to do with how one views one's self. I say this as one who first went to BYU.

I actually think that the overall young LDS population, and now I say this as one who graduated from the U and has lived most of my life outside of Utah, is fairly different in many respects from the BYU population.

Additionally, SLC is a very different place from Provo (duh). I thought I hated Utah having lived a few years in Provo and upon moving to SLC found that I quiet liked Utah.

Other people love Provo, but I certainly agree with you that it isn't "Utah."

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by UtahDan

I would disagree, however, that it is your typical young LDS community either. Without exploring motivations too deeply, I think it is fair to say that among those students who have their choice of higher education (and there are MANY in the church) those who elect BYU versus those who elect a good school where they live are just different breeds of cat. At least one component of this has to do with how one views one's self. I say this as one who first went to BYU.

I actually think that the overall young LDS population, and now I say this as one who graduated from the U and has lived most of my life outside of Utah, is fairly different in many respects from the BYU population.

Given the requirements and selectivity involved, I don't disagree. Probably not typical. And certainly the reasons many people choose BYU over other schools play into this (social and cultural versus academic). So, the school may attract a certain type of LDS twenty-something.

For me, a Utah Mormon, I wanted to expand the possible dating pool beyond Davis County. Suddenly I was meeting Mormon girls from all over.

Then I turn around and marry an Italian Catholic after graduating. Crazy.