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Tex · 05-07-2012, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Of course there is going to be a flare up. There already has been.

And not only will they have to deal with the negative perceptions of non-members, they will also have to deal with members who are exposed to these things for the first time. And all the attendant fall-out. That's what happens if all you've ever heard is the correlated version of the church.

Milquetoast Mormons keep telling me this is going to happen someday.

MikeWaters · 05-07-2012, 08:06 PM

I don't know about you Tex, but I've already had to deal with it. Personally. And not my "liberal Mormon" friends either. Rather, very conservative folks. Two local families that asked for the records to be removed from the church.

I think there are more of these that I/we realize. Because many of the inactive will not tell us why they are disaffected and inactive.

But this will likely be self-limiting. We are seeing a transition period where much of this information could not be easily accessed. Now it's a South Park episode. Twenty years from now, the members won't be able to say "I grew up in the church and never heard of this until my friend asked..."

Zulu451 · 05-08-2012, 01:13 AM

Mike, honestly I don't think that the church is overly concerned about flare ups of anti mormonism. It has always been there, and frankly will always be there. We are who we are, and just by our nature, there will be those who oppose us.

I do think that do to the international nature of the church and that we have so much growth outside of the country right now it is of the up most concern that we as a church are transparent in not showing any support for a candidate based upon religious orientation. How would Mitt Romney getting elected, with overt church support effect the church in China, Russia, chances of getting into Cuba (BYU musical groups visited this past year). The list goes on. This is bigger than a bunch of blow-hards here in the US.

Just some thoughts.

MikeWaters · 05-08-2012, 01:48 AM

duh, I don't support the church getting into politics. That should be obvious. I think Prop 8 was a fiasco.

I don't expect the church to get behind LDS candidates.

I do expect the church to want to try and control its public image. Such as the "I am a Mormon" campaign. I wish they would stick to that stuff more, and the far-right politics less.

Tex · 05-08-2012, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I don't know about you Tex, but I've already had to deal with it. Personally. And not my "liberal Mormon" friends either. Rather, very conservative folks. Two local families that asked for the records to be removed from the church.

I think there are more of these that I/we realize. Because many of the inactive will not tell us why they are disaffected and inactive.

But this will likely be self-limiting. We are seeing a transition period where much of this information could not be easily accessed. Now it's a South Park episode. Twenty years from now, the members won't be able to say "I grew up in the church and never heard of this until my friend asked..."

I don't see compelling evidence to believe this is any more a problem than it ever was.

MikeWaters · 05-08-2012, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't see compelling evidence to believe this is any more a problem than it ever was.

Empirically, who knows. Church doesn't release statistics on members who ask to have their names removed. But certainly they know the answer to the question.

ChinoCoug · 05-08-2012, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tex

I don't see compelling evidence to believe this is any more a problem than it ever was.

Tex, Elder Jensen has said there hasn't been more defections since Kirtland. It will multiply with the candidacy. Although Grant Palmer is probably full of it when he claims that the Church gets 300,000 resignation requests each year, this is going to be a big problem.

ChinoCoug · 05-08-2012, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zulu451

Mike, honestly I don't think that the church is overly concerned about flare ups of anti mormonism. It has always been there, and frankly will always be there. We are who we are, and just by our nature, there will be those who oppose us.

I do think that do to the international nature of the church and that we have so much growth outside of the country right now it is of the up most concern that we as a church are transparent in not showing any support for a candidate based upon religious orientation. How would Mitt Romney getting elected, with overt church support effect the church in China, Russia, chances of getting into Cuba (BYU musical groups visited this past year). The list goes on. This is bigger than a bunch of blow-hards here in the US.

Just some thoughts.

You know that the Church's international proselytzying fortunes rise and fall based on how well the US is perceived abroad, right? If Romney is anything like W. we are screwed.

Tex · 05-08-2012, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

Tex, Elder Jensen has said there hasn't been more defections since Kirtland. It will multiply with the candidacy. Although Grant Palmer is probably full of it when he claims that the Church gets 300,000 resignation requests each year, this is going to be a big problem.

I have a really hard time believe this is because more Church members are googling "Fanny Alger."

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChinoCoug

You know that the Church's international proselytzying fortunes rise and fall based on how well the US is perceived abroad, right? If Romney is anything like W. we are screwed.

Come on, Chino, are you really peddling this?

MikeWaters · 05-08-2012, 09:36 PM

Ran into a member of my old ward today, and one of the first things he brought up was the member who had his records removed. Such a huge reverberating impact when a prominent member of a ward apostatizes. If he had died, there would have been less talk. I think there is a real feeling of sadness about the situation among many, many people.

05-08-2012, 01:13 AM	#13
Zulu451 house-elf 3rd class Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 386	Mike, honestly I don't think that the church is overly concerned about flare ups of anti mormonism. It has always been there, and frankly will always be there. We are who we are, and just by our nature, there will be those who oppose us. I do think that do to the international nature of the church and that we have so much growth outside of the country right now it is of the up most concern that we as a church are transparent in not showing any support for a candidate based upon religious orientation. How would Mitt Romney getting elected, with overt church support effect the church in China, Russia, chances of getting into Cuba (BYU musical groups visited this past year). The list goes on. This is bigger than a bunch of blow-hards here in the US. Just some thoughts. __________________ <---- Mikewaters drives the lane...

05-07-2012, 08:06 PM	#12
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I don't know about you Tex, but I've already had to deal with it. Personally. And not my "liberal Mormon" friends either. Rather, very conservative folks. Two local families that asked for the records to be removed from the church. I think there are more of these that I/we realize. Because many of the inactive will not tell us why they are disaffected and inactive. But this will likely be self-limiting. We are seeing a transition period where much of this information could not be easily accessed. Now it's a South Park episode. Twenty years from now, the members won't be able to say "I grew up in the church and never heard of this until my friend asked..."

05-08-2012, 01:48 AM	#14
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	duh, I don't support the church getting into politics. That should be obvious. I think Prop 8 was a fiasco. I don't expect the church to get behind LDS candidates. I do expect the church to want to try and control its public image. Such as the "I am a Mormon" campaign. I wish they would stick to that stuff more, and the far-right politics less.

05-08-2012, 09:36 PM	#20
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	Ran into a member of my old ward today, and one of the first things he brought up was the member who had his records removed. Such a huge reverberating impact when a prominent member of a ward apostatizes. If he had died, there would have been less talk. I think there is a real feeling of sadness about the situation among many, many people.