This talk won't go over well with some...

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by non sequitur

Like I said before, I don't have a dog in this fight -- I just like watching the fall-out. I never said GC was bad, though I haven't watched it in a long time. You shouldn't be so defensive. I actually like TooBlue a lot. He's an artist, and I have a lot of respect for that. I do think he must have a lot of inner conflict, though, being so artistic and yet being so close-minded. He spends a great deal of time making arguments that I don't think he really believes. He reminds me of myself when I was younger.

We all have inner conflict -I'm no different, and it's a good thing. It means I am alive, thinking, living and not merely an automaton.

I make arguments as a way to flesh out what I really believe -often I purposely act the part of contrarian. However, I have beliefs that I am passionate about and I am exceptionally consistent in espousing them.

[tooblue]

Originally Posted by tooblue

That's a cop out -come on, let's bloody our knuckles.

By the way, your only recourse is an appeal to faith also

[Clark Addison]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

My problem is this: why aren't men told more forcefully that fatherhood is their most noble calling?

Perhaps because it isn't?

If fatherhood was the most noble calling, what do we say of those who sacrifice it in performing time-consuming callings?

I would be interested to hear a talk about how men shouldn't trade material gain (working 80 hours a week in a big law firm) for time with their family.

I'll probably be waiting a long time.

I think someone already referred to this, but Elder Oaks, in probably my favorite talk of conference (at least that I was awake for), talked a lot about these exact things. Don't work too much, and don't spend too much time in your callings. Spend it with your family.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I would be interested to hear a talk about how men shouldn't trade material gain (working 80 hours a week in a big law firm) for time with their family.

I'll probably be waiting a long time.

From today's priesthood lesson:

"The husband’s choice of occupation, his social life, his friends, his every interest must now be considered in the light that he is only a part of a family, that the totalness of the group must be considered.

...

Husbands, come home—body, spirit, mind, loyalties, interests, and affections—and love your companion in an holy and unbreakable relationship."

http://lds.org/portal/site/LDSOrg/me...ontentLocale=0

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

My problem is this: why aren't men told more forcefully that fatherhood is their most noble calling?

I've come way late to this one (we didn't watch GC, we went with the wife's family to outdoor Mass and fall festival instead--we'll catch up on GC via BYU-TV and I already know my wife will love Sister Beck's talk; I mean it, she will love it).

Mike, sometimes I think we are members of entirely different churches. I see this as a constant theme being driven into my brain. It's what my father modeled for me. It's what I teach and hope I am modeling for my sons and daughters.

Mass was actually pretty good. The homily was on, among other things, being good parents. Go figure. The festival was okay; the highlight was playing bingo. I almost won a DVR. The lowlight was the Guatemalan tamales.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

I've come way late to this one (we didn't watch GC, we went with the wife's family to outdoor Mass and fall festival instead--we'll catch up on GC via BYU-TV and I already know my wife will love Sister Beck's talk; I mean it, she will love it).

Mike, sometimes I think we are members of entirely different churches. I see this as a constant theme being driven into my brain. It's what my father modeled for me. It's what I teach and hope I am modeling for my sons and daughters.

Mass was actually pretty good. The homily was on, among other things, being good parents. Go figure. The festival was okay; the highlight was playing bingo. I almost won a DVR. The lowlight was the Guatemalan tamales.

I know that the man who is always gone at work is not judged the same way as the woman who works in a professional job. Maybe my experience is the outlier.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I know that the man who is always gone at work is not judged the same way as the woman who works in a professional job. Maybe my experience is the outlier.

Perhaps, but that's not what you said and what I responded to.