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Old 07-22-2007, 09:01 PM   #11
il Padrino Ute
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Originally Posted by All-American View Post
I don't know if you're looking for Greek only, but I remember the first time I read this in the Aeneid:

"Equo ne credite, Teucri. Quidquid id est, timeo Danaos et dona ferentis."
Don't believe the horse. Beware Greeks bringing gifts.

Is that close? I used Italian to figure that out. And I'll deduce that "Teucri" is Trojans.
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:29 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
Don't believe the horse. Beware Greeks bringing gifts.

Is that close? I used Italian to figure that out. And I'll deduce that "Teucri" is Trojans.
Well done - According to legend, Teucer was an ancestor of the Trojan kings, so the Trojans were sometimes called Teucri.
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:37 PM   #13
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Well done - According to legend, Teucer was an ancestor of the Trojan kings, so the Trojans were sometimes called Teucri.
Didn't know that about the Trojans. Thanks for the quick lesson.

Knowing Italian has really helped me figure out a lot of Latin phrases. It makes me seem smarter than I actually am, ya know?
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Old 07-22-2007, 09:53 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute View Post
Don't believe the horse. Beware Greeks bringing gifts.

Is that close? I used Italian to figure that out. And I'll deduce that "Teucri" is Trojans.
Most impressive. "Don't trust the horse" is probably better-- but still, pretty darn spot on.

I saw a sign written in Italian once and was pretty proud of myself for knowing most of it, having learned Spanish and some Latin.
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Old 07-22-2007, 10:05 PM   #15
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Most impressive. "Don't trust the horse" is probably better-- but still, pretty darn spot on.

I saw a sign written in Italian once and was pretty proud of myself for knowing most of it, having learned Spanish and some Latin.
Romance languages are pretty similar. A few years ago, I was helping a friend do some work in his office and surprised a couple who was speaking Spanish to each other (she looked like she was from a S. American country and he had to be an RM, as he had that look) who were saying bad things about my friend because they weren't happy that he was unable to get them a larger tax return. (My friend is a CPA).

I told my friend what I understood them to be saying right with them sitting at his desk and they looked mortified. He didn't say anything to them except "sign in these spots and we can file this for you."

Fun times.
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Old 07-23-2007, 02:48 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon View Post
Your signature is great, too.

Sappho:

Beauty endures only for as long as it can be seen; goodness, beautiful today, will remain so tomorrow.

Wealth without virtue is a dangerous guest;
Who holds them mingled is supremely blest.
Thanks for the signature props. Callimachus was unbelievably talented, but almost impossible to read.

Sappho is always good for some nice imagery. It's probably the greatest tragedy of the ancient world that no intact poem of hers has survived.

My favorite Sappho fragment:
"The moon has set,
And the Pleiades. It is the middle of the night, time passes.
I, alone, lie down to sleep."
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:09 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solon View Post
Thanks for the signature props. Callimachus was unbelievably talented, but almost impossible to read.

Sappho is always good for some nice imagery. It's probably the greatest tragedy of the ancient world that no intact poem of hers has survived.

My favorite Sappho fragment:
"The moon has set,
And the Pleiades. It is the middle of the night, time passes.
I, alone, lie down to sleep."
I liked that one too.

Interesting that she predicted that her words would be immortal. Time seems to have proven her, to some extent, correct.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:44 AM   #18
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Semonides?

On Women:
Quote:
In different ways god made the mind of woman in the beginning. He made one from the bristly sow through whose house everything, smeared with mud, lies in dishevelment and rolls along the ground. Unclean and in unwashed clothes herself, 5 she sits among the dunghills and grows fat. Another the god constructed from a mischievous fox, a woman skilled in everything. Nothing evil alludes her, nor anything good. Of them, she often deems the latter bad 10 and the former good. Her temperament is fickle. Another he made a rogue from a dog, image of her mother, who wants to hear everything and know everything and goes about snooping and wandering everywhere, barking whether she sees anybody or not. 15 Her husband couldn't stop her with his threats, not even if he got mad and knocked her teeth out with a stone or if he charmed her with words, not even if she is sitting beside guests. No, she keeps up her useless yapping constantly. 20 Another the Olympians molded from earth and gave her lame to a man. Neither anything evil nor good does such a woman know. Of accomplishments, she knows only how to eat. Even if god turns the winter to the bad, though she is shivering, 25 she won't drag her chair nearer the fire. Another from the sea, who sees two moods in her heart. One day she laughs and rejoices. The guest, seeing her in the house, praises her. "There's no other woman better than this one, 30 nor more beautiful among all mankind." Another day, she is unendurable even to look at or to come near, but she raging mad at that time, unapproachable like a bitch with her pups. Unassuaged and unpleasant to all, 35 she acts no differently to friends than enemies. Just like the sea is sometimes calm and kindly, a great joy for sailors in summertime, but at other times, it rages, lifted up on deep-thundering waves, 40 like the sea is such a woman in temperament. The sea's nature fluctuates, too. Another from the dusty-gray, stubborn donkey, who, under force and abuse, toil and trouble, loves the work after all and does the best. 45 Then, she eats in the innermost stall all night, all day, and she eats at the hearth. Likewise, too, regarding matters of sex, she accepts any companion who comes along. Another god made from a skunk, wretched, woeful sort. 50 Nothing beautiful, nothing charming about her, nothing pleasant, and nothing sexy, either. But she's mad for the bed and sex, and when he's around, she makes her husband nauseous. She steals from the neighbors and commits every evil. 55 Often she eats sacrifices waiting to be offered. Another a dainty mare with flowing main bore, who avoids the toil and drudgery of slaves. She wouldn't touch the mill or lift the sieve or throw dung out of the house, 60 nor sit by the oven--she shuns the soot. She makes her husband intimate with Hard Times. She washes the dirt from herself twice during the day, some days thrice, and anoints herself with perfumes. 65 Always she wears her hair long and shadowed deep with flowers. Such a woman is a beautiful thing to look at for others, but for him who has her, she proves to be an evil, unless he's some tyrant or sceptered king who flatters his ego with such stuff. 70 Another from a monkey. This one Zeus bestowed upon men as the worst evil beyond all evils. Her faces is the ugliest. Such a woman goes through town a laughingstock for all men. Her neck's short: she barely turns her head. 75 She's got no buttocks but is all legs. Alas, the poor man who takes this evil in his arms. Every scheme and turn she knows, just like a monkey, and doesn't give a hoot about the laughing. She wouldn't do anyone any good but looks only at this,80 and plans this the whole day long: how she will do anybody the greatest evil. Another from a bee. Anyone getting her is lucky. To her alone cleaves no blame, but livelihood flourishes with her and increases. 85 She loves her husband, and he loves her. She bears him noble and renowned sons. They grow old together. Conspicuous among all women is she, and divine grace surrounds her. She takes no pleasure in sitting among women 90 when all they talk about is sex. Women like her Zeus gives to men. They are the best and most accomplished women. The other tribes are here because of Zeus's trickery, all of them, and they remain among men. 95 Zeus made this to be the greatest evil--women. If they seem to be helpful, they prove in the end to be an evil for whoever has them. He never goes the whole day in cheer, that man who has a woman. 100 She will not push away famine from the house, a hostile housemate and harsh god. Whenever a man seems glad at heart, in his home or by god's allotment and men's favor, she finds something to blame and arms for battle. 105 Where there is a woman, he could not welcome eagerly a guest, who's arrived, into his house. And one who seems particularly modest turns out to shame herself most egregiously. Her husband's jaw drops, and the neighbors 110 delight in seeing him that way as he errs. Each man, recalling his wife, will praise her and will find fault with another man's wife. We don't realize that we have the same lot. Zeus made this to be the greatest evil 115 and put round us unbreakable fetters from which Hades receives men who have quarreled over a woman. Hipponax fr. 68 Two days of a woman are sweetest, whenever someone marries her and carries her out dead.
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:56 AM   #19
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Quote:
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Semonides?

On Women:
wow, Arch, pretty impressive.

Shouldn't the translation use "eludes" instead of "alludes" (8)?
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Old 07-23-2007, 03:58 AM   #20
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Here is one that haunts me.

Mimnermus:

Quote:
But short-lived, like a dream,
is treasured Youth.
Harsh and deformed
Old Age looms just above our heads.
Hated and despised alike,
it makes a man unrecognizable,
ruins his eyes, clouds his mind.
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