Book of Mormon Stories - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

RedHeadGal · 08-25-2008, 02:03 PM

The song, people. I'm taking you back to primary again (yes, that is where I spend most of my Sunday meetings).

I would say we sing the song "Book of Mormon Stories" approximately every other week in our Primary. And invariably some person starts doing those actions, like two fingers behind their head, to signify some kind of stereotypical American Indian thing. They wave their arm for "far across the sea" and then do some kind of old movie Western thing at the end with their arms that also seems to be some kind of American Indian stereotype. You all have seen these actions, no?

Anyway, the actions have always bothered me as racist, so I never do them, but I have recently thought maybe I should try to do something other than just not participate. Like see if I can get people to stop doing them entirely. We are teaching this to children, after all. And yet people I know, like, and respect, seem to do the actions as though there is no problem at all. Which puzzles me.

If you are familiar with these actions, do they bother you? And if so, what would you do about it?

BigFatMeanie · 08-25-2008, 02:14 PM

1. Yes
2. Nothing but teach my own family not to do them

Sleeping in EQ · 08-25-2008, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

The song, people. I'm taking you back to primary again (yes, that is where I spend most of my Sunday meetings).

I would say we sing the song "Book of Mormon Stories" approximately every other week in our Primary. And invariably some person starts doing those actions, like two fingers behind their head, to signify some kind of stereotypical American Indian thing. They wave their arm for "far across the sea" and then do some kind of old movie Western thing at the end with their arms that also seems to be some kind of American Indian stereotype. You all have seen these actions, no?

Anyway, the actions have always bothered me as racist, so I never do them, but I have recently thought maybe I should try to do something other than just not participate. Like see if I can get people to stop doing them entirely. We are teaching this to children, after all. And yet people I know, like, and respect, seem to do the actions as though there is no problem at all. Which puzzles me.

If you are familiar with these actions, do they bother you? And if so, what would you do about it?

They bother me.

I'd speak with the Primary President about it.

Indy Coug · 08-25-2008, 02:22 PM

"Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be...."

MikeWaters · 08-25-2008, 02:52 PM

There's so much institutional racism in the church that it is hard to know what to get upset about.

I'm more upset about the current YM manual that instructs kids not to marry others of different races.

RedHeadGal · 08-25-2008, 04:07 PM

well, at least I'm not alone. And I don't see anyone chiming in with a defense for why it's done.

I may speak to the Primary pres. But she's not really one to rock the boat, so I'm not sure she would do anything.

Interestingly, my co-teacher is Navajo. I've never asked her if the actions bother her (we've only been partnered for about 6 weeks, and I don't know her well). I wonder if they do. I'm guessing they probably don't (or at least not too much) because I do think you have to swallow a fair amount of racism as a part of the cultural group. Sadly.

ERCougar · 08-25-2008, 04:08 PM

So maybe I'm just an institutionalized racist, but I don't really find the song offensive. The actions aren't violent (as in the tomahawk chop), they're just simple personifications of what they're singing. Did Native Americans never wear feather headdresses? Did they never fold their arms? These seem pretty benign "stereotypes".

If a Native American finds it offensive, then by all means, let's take it out.

MikeWaters · 08-25-2008, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

So maybe I'm just an institutionalized racist, but I don't really find the song offensive. The actions aren't violent (as in the tomahawk chop), they're just simple personifications of what they're singing. Did Native Americans never wear feather headdresses? Did they never fold their arms? These seem pretty benign "stereotypes".

If a Native American finds it offensive, then by all means, let's take it out.

are you a pan-America BoM believer?

ERCougar · 08-25-2008, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

are you a pan-America BoM believer?

Well, the doctrinal issues are a whole different story. Here we're talking about racism.

MikeWaters · 08-25-2008, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ERCougar

Well, the doctrinal issues are a whole different story. Here we're talking about racism.

We are talking about whether it is appropriate for kids to dress like Sitting Bull during this song.

08-25-2008, 02:03 PM	#1
RedHeadGal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: DC Posts: 995	Book of Mormon Stories The song, people. I'm taking you back to primary again (yes, that is where I spend most of my Sunday meetings). I would say we sing the song "Book of Mormon Stories" approximately every other week in our Primary. And invariably some person starts doing those actions, like two fingers behind their head, to signify some kind of stereotypical American Indian thing. They wave their arm for "far across the sea" and then do some kind of old movie Western thing at the end with their arms that also seems to be some kind of American Indian stereotype. You all have seen these actions, no? Anyway, the actions have always bothered me as racist, so I never do them, but I have recently thought maybe I should try to do something other than just not participate. Like see if I can get people to stop doing them entirely. We are teaching this to children, after all. And yet people I know, like, and respect, seem to do the actions as though there is no problem at all. Which puzzles me. If you are familiar with these actions, do they bother you? And if so, what would you do about it?

08-25-2008, 02:14 PM	#2
BigFatMeanie Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: South Jordan Posts: 1,725	1. Yes 2. Nothing but teach my own family not to do them

08-25-2008, 02:22 PM	#4
Indy Coug Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Between Iraq and a hard place Posts: 7,569	"Book of Mormon stories say that we must brothers be...."

08-25-2008, 02:52 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	There's so much institutional racism in the church that it is hard to know what to get upset about. I'm more upset about the current YM manual that instructs kids not to marry others of different races.

08-25-2008, 04:07 PM	#6
RedHeadGal Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: DC Posts: 995	well, at least I'm not alone. And I don't see anyone chiming in with a defense for why it's done. I may speak to the Primary pres. But she's not really one to rock the boat, so I'm not sure she would do anything. Interestingly, my co-teacher is Navajo. I've never asked her if the actions bother her (we've only been partnered for about 6 weeks, and I don't know her well). I wonder if they do. I'm guessing they probably don't (or at least not too much) because I do think you have to swallow a fair amount of racism as a part of the cultural group. Sadly.

08-25-2008, 04:08 PM	#7
ERCougar Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Posts: 1,589	So maybe I'm just an institutionalized racist, but I don't really find the song offensive. The actions aren't violent (as in the tomahawk chop), they're just simple personifications of what they're singing. Did Native Americans never wear feather headdresses? Did they never fold their arms? These seem pretty benign "stereotypes". If a Native American finds it offensive, then by all means, let's take it out.