A deeply personal question for believers

[Archaea]

LDS have a culture of belief, especially in invoking the promise of Moroni in Mormon Chapter 10.

All of us LDS know the challenge and have indeed challenged many a person to try it.

It involves prayer and interpreting a response to that prayer. LDS will challenge investigators to try out the teachings in one's mind and heart and then inquire of God if these things are not true.

Not being anybody else but myself, but also having heard the statements of many a testimony, answer if you wish and answer not if it's too personal, but what was the nature of your prayer and how did you interpret your answer.

By that I mean, what was the level of specificity in detail and how specific did you interpret the answer. Later, I'll provide my personal answer but I'm curious how varied our experiences are.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

LDS have a culture of belief, especially in invoking the promise of Moroni in Mormon Chapter 10.

All of us LDS know the challenge and have indeed challenged many a person to try it.

It involves prayer and interpreting a response to that prayer. LDS will challenge investigators to try out the teachings in one's mind and heart and then inquire of God if these things are not true.

Not being anybody else but myself, but also having heard the statements of many a testimony, answer if you wish and answer not if it's too personal, but what was the nature of your prayer and how did you interpret your answer.

By that I mean, what was the level of specificity in detail and how specific did you interpret the answer. Later, I'll provide my personal answer but I'm curious have varied our experiences are.

I won't go into the detail you are looking for, but my experience was such that I have a firm belief in the gospel. That belief is powerful enough that I begin analyzing every question with the presumption that the gospel is true, and then I continue searching for an answer to my question that will fit within the framework of believing the gospel to be true.

[Black Diamond Bay]

Originally Posted by Archaea

LDS have a culture of belief, especially in invoking the promise of Moroni in Mormon Chapter 10.

All of us LDS know the challenge and have indeed challenged many a person to try it.

It involves prayer and interpreting a response to that prayer. LDS will challenge investigators to try out the teachings in one's mind and heart and then inquire of God if these things are not true.

Not being anybody else but myself, but also having heard the statements of many a testimony, answer if you wish and answer not if it's too personal, but what was the nature of your prayer and how did you interpret your answer.

By that I mean, what was the level of specificity in detail and how specific did you interpret the answer. Later, I'll provide my personal answer but I'm curious have varied our experiences are.

Truthfully I didn't take the challenge quite as it was set forth. The idea of just praying about it and getting a warm fuzzy feeling wasn't quite good enough for me, so I took another approach, but the end result was still a solid testimony.

[creekster]

Arch, I think this is an unfair request. This is a pearls before swine situation (no offense SU and similar). I have a testimony that is important to me and which sustains me. I am happy to share that information about myself. The precise experiences that led me to that point are intensely personal. Under some circumstances I would be pleased to share them, but those are not common circumstances and they are not found here.

The reason I think it is unfair is because you will be unlikely to get the sort of response you have asked for, making you wonder if there are such experiences, making non-believers think there aren't such experiences and making the rest of us wonder if we should share these experiences that we are reluctant to share.

[All-American]

When I was about three years old, my parents read the Joseph Smith story to me in that gray Book of Mormon reader book that used to be around. I was so excited to finally find out who this Joseph Smith guy was that everybody talked about and said was a prophet. When Joseph asked which church he should join, I remember thinking Wow, what a GREAT question to ask! The answer came back-- none of them. For whatever reason, that answer made perfect sense to my three year-old mind. I believed it wholeheartedly.

As a teenager, I heard somebody talk about the challenge in Moroni and I realized that I had never tested it myself. I had always believed the Book of Mormon to be true, but I had never asked. So I did. The answer that came back was an unmistakable "Why on earth are you asking this question? I don't need to tell you this. You already know that it's true." So I did.

Since then, the main test of the Book of Mormon has ever been one of application. If it is what it says it is, it should do what it says it will do. The book has always passed that test for me. As I have read it and followed its teachings, I have felt closer to God than by any other means. By this point, there's simply no reason for me to ask whether it is true or not-- only how I may better follow its teachings.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by creekster

Arch, I think this is an unfair request. This is a pearls before swine situation (no offense SU and similar). I have a testimony that is important to me and which sustains me. I am happy to share that information about myself. The precise experiences that led me to that point are intensely personal. Under some circumstances I would be pleased to share them, but those are not common circumstances and they are not found here.

I'm glad someone else feels this way, because frankly, that was my reaction as well. Considering the way I've been treated, I certainly have no desire to open myself up for further ridicule by posting something that personal.

Another think to keep in mind. I know Boyd Packer isn't a real popular man around these parts, but he did caution my mission president once that spiritual stories are not to be made currency of. I don't think that's what Archaea is doing, but I think it's worth mentioning if the thread continues.

[RockyBalboa]

I think it's a great question Arch and I applaud you for asking. I think the sharing of testimonies on occasion as opposed to what is normally occurring (no thanks to my lame contributions) in religion subject is a fine idea.

Albeit a personal one, my testimony has comes in bits and pieces in my life. A little bit here, a little bit there.

Most recently, my testimony of The Atonement has increased a lot. Without going into too much detail, last night for the first time in a very long time, or what felt like a very long time to me, I was fully re-instated into the church and am now able to use the priesthood when called upon, able to take the sacrament and serve in church callings.

My understanding of The Atonement in terms of it's scope increased because of my personal struggles and weaknesses, not in spite of them. It was through a strong and concentrated effort on my part, combined with the old school tools of personal prayer, scripture reading, paying my tithing that I began to see the changes in my life.

It was hard as hell. One of the hardest things I've ever done. I had a strong testimony since I was 19 years old. Adding bits and pieces over the years, but then I was really challenged by lack of good personal choice in dis-obeying the commandments and suddenly finding myself in a situation where it was up to me to decide if I was going to let The Savior's Grace take effect in my life. I struggled with anger, pride, indifference and most of all and embarrassingly so, contempt with having been punished for what I'd done.

It seemed like the harder my heart became, the worse things got for me. The harder I kicked against the pricks. In the middle of last Summer I realized that I was being willfully stubborn. In order for changes to happen for me, I had to be the one to take those steps and The Savior would make up the rest.

Here we are nearly 10 months later after that moment of clarity, and with tears streaming down my face last night in humility and peace I'd never been more grateful at any time in my life for The Atonement than I had right then and there. Hearing a Bishop tell you that after he and his Counselors separately prayed in the room, then prayed as a Bishopric together, that the unanimous confirmation from above was that I was to be re-instated was a feeling hard to describe. I know this is deeply personal and I hesistate sharing it, but the feeling in the room was palpable and isn't one I'd choose to share with very many people. I know many who're critical of the church and it's disciplinary process (I've been one of them) and if they'd had an opportunity to feel of the love and strong spirit in that room, I'm convinced they'd feel differently afterwards.

I've a brother who was recently diagnosed with cancer on his pituitary gland. 2 weeks ago I was asked to participate in giving him a blessing and I was unable to and it tore me to pieces. Hearing last night I was going to be in the position to help not only him, but others overwhelmed me. I took for granted the privileges bestowed upon a priesthood holder.

Things are looking up for me now. I truly believe in Ether 12:27 that if I submit myself to Him that He will make weaks things become strong. It is The Atonement that makes this possible.

I've a looooooooong way to go in my spiritual development, and I know I've come across as a jerk to many on here, and for that I've a long way to go in rectifying, but all in all, I hold no ill will towards the people on here and realize that even though my experiences and feelings are different, that I've more to learn from you guys, than you do from me.

I know because of the quiet peace I felt last night that The Atonement is awesome and far reaching beyond my comprehension. I hope I learn to apply it better in my life and to tender my Hyde side when offering opinions in the future.

[Archaea]

If too personal don't answer, but question revolved more around what was the nature of the answer you interpreted.

Here is what I mean, did you ask the proverbial, "Is it true?"

Or did you ask, "is this what it purports to be a religious testament of Christ?'

Or did you ask, "is this a record, 'translated', by a man, from ancient golden plates with a historicity beyond reproach?"

Or did you ask if it is of divine origin?

Or did you inquire after applying its principles, believing you knew the answer in the first place, whether it was of divine origin?

The reason for my inquiry is not to peer into your souls, but to evaluate the nature and extent of "knowledge" one acquires through spiritual witness. It is my hypothesis that our witnesses are usually more limited than we are willing to admit. Or we don't fully understand the nature of the witness we received.

The witness received may well create a firm conviction from which one will not be dissuaded. However, sometimes, convictions I've had have not manifested themselves in the manner in which I expected. Thus, it causes me to re-evaluate what I really inquired about and what answer I receive. What was the scope of the inquiry, and what was the specificity of the response?

I understand usually the response brings a certain clarity. How much specificity?

The epistimological process, even in spiritual matters is fascinating to me. I was merely turning my empirical eye upon something difficult to understand. I really didn't seek to have the most personal of personal disclosures, but more to focus upon the process, the inquiry and the result to better understand the inquiry-answer process.

[fusnik11]

Not to head down a tangent but it'd be an interesting study to see how forgiveness in the church evolved from BOM and Bible principles (overnight forgiveness, instant grace) to standardized times of probation.

Anyways.....

I've never received a witness of the veracity of the BOM after praying. I have felt the principles contained therein ring true and feelings that much good comes from applying these teachings into my life.

[bluegoose]

Originally Posted by RockyBalboa

Most recently, my testimony of The Atonement has increased a lot. Without going into too much detail, last night for the first time in a very long time, or what felt like a very long time to me, I was fully re-instated into the church and am now able to use the priesthood when called upon, able to take the sacrament and serve in church callings.

My understanding of The Atonement in terms of it's scope increased because of my personal struggles and weaknesses, not in spite of them.

I just wanted to say congrats Rocky and thanks for sharing your story. Congrats not just for receiving the blessings of the priesthood back, but also for the journey that got you to that point.

Regarding Archaea's original question, my experience, without going into great detail, was with asking a very specific question and getting a very specific and unmistakeable answer. This occured close to 15 years ago and the feeling is still as strong as it was when it originally happened.