Seattle Ute

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by El Paso Coug

You have a very practical approach, which I try to have as well. Your approach is to extract the good from any situation and leave the bad. I think that it would be very hard for someone to say that there isn't an enormous amount of good things relating to the LDS Church, regardless of whether you are a believer or not. It's hard to argue that the LDS Church won't make an individual a better human being and doesn't teach excellent life principles.

I think that the bitterness comes from "the only true church" claim. If you are taught to believe that the LDS Church is the only true church, that it's the only place where God's true authority is found and that God can only give revelation to the LDS prophet and then the Church makes you swear your life to the Church when you are 19, I can see where someone would be bitter if you determined that those extremely serious claims regarding salvation were false. It would be hard to simply walk away from that and just say, "well, it's not true and I'll go find another religion now", when you have lived your life thinking you were following the only true path to the celestial kingdom. The fact that you lived a productive and wholesome life and were taught some really good principles along the way is great, but it doesn't change the gravity of the discovery regarding true salvation.

If I were to disavow myself of the LDS church, I would essentially conclude that there is no higher power. As a result, I wouldn't worry about the path to salvation because I would conclude that there is none.

Conceivably there might be some subsequent bitterness that my existence is nothing more than mortality and hence is rendered somewhat meaningless, but my bitterness, if I was being honest with myself, wouldn't be misdirected at the LDS church.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

If I were to disavow myself of the LDS church, I would essentially conclude that there is no higher power. As a result, I wouldn't worry about the path to salvation because I would conclude that there is none.

Conceivably there might be some subsequent bitterness that my existence is nothing more than mortality and hence is rendered somewhat meaningless, but my bitterness, if I was being honest with myself, wouldn't be misdirected at the LDS church.

what if you felt God moved you to become a Catholic? Is that not possible? How can we expect converts to come to the LDS church if we don't allow for all things, in which God might direct us?

[creekster]

Originally Posted by El Paso Coug

You have a very practical approach, which I try to have as well. Your approach is to extract the good from any situation and leave the bad. I think that it would be very hard for someone to say that there isn't an enormous amount of good things relating to the LDS Church, regardless of whether you are a believer or not. It's hard to argue that the LDS Church won't make an individual a better human being and doesn't teach excellent life principles.

I think that the bitterness comes from "the only true church" claim. If you are taught to believe that the LDS Church is the only true church, that it's the only place where God's true authority is found and that God can only give revelation to the LDS prophet and then the Church makes you swear your life to it when you are 19 (at least for active males), I can see where someone would be bitter if you determined that those extremely serious claims regarding salvation were false. It would be hard to simply walk away from that and just say, "well, it's not true and I'll go find another religion now", when you have lived your life thinking you were following the only true path to the celestial kingdom. The fact that you lived a productive and wholesome life and were taught some really good principles along the way is great, but it doesn't change the gravity of the discovery regarding true salvation (at least where it's not found).

Thus we should expect bitterness and allow it without comment or retort? WHere does this take you?

Isn't this just a variation of finding out that your father isn't as smart as he seemed when you were younger? What do you do about it? DO you wallow in bitterness and take jabs at your fmaily or do you live and let live and move on with your life?

If you still see it as your family, then you are stuck with it and so sometimes the bitterness omces out and you really can't help it becaseu you don't want to stay but you also can't leave. But if it is a church that you now think is false, then wouldnt' you leave and go elsewhere rather than dwell in your bitterness? Unless you are now re-directing your zeal towards conversion to your new world view, which then leads down a whole new path of specualtion.

SU is going to LOVE this thread.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

what if you felt God moved you to become a Catholic? Is that not possible? How can we expect converts to come to the LDS church if we don't allow for all things, in which God might direct us?

No. After all of the things I've experienced and witnessed, if I found that it was all for naught, there's no way I could conceivably be convinced something else out there was more on target than Mormonism.

[El Paso Coug]

Originally Posted by Indy Coug

If I were to disavow myself of the LDS church, I would essentially conclude that there is no higher power. As a result, I wouldn't worry about the path to salvation because I would conclude that there is none.

Conceivably there might be some subsequent bitterness that my existence is nothing more than mortality and hence is rendered somewhat meaningless, but my bitterness, if I was being honest with myself, wouldn't be misdirected at the LDS church.

This is a very interesting post. Essentially, you are saying that you believe that God reveals himself exclusively through Mormonism or there is no God. I don't know what most people believe who leave the LDS Church, but Iwould think that most still believe in God, but that there isn't one true church.

[MikeWaters]

I really do think if Satan were to sign up on this forum, he would be not much different from SU.

SU isn't hated 100%, per se. He's not pariah. He's good enough to keep around, but evil enough to do his darnedest to damage your faith. He walks that line.

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by El Paso Coug

This is a very interesting post. Essentially, you are saying that you believe that God reveals himself exclusively through Mormonism or there is no God. I don't know what most people believe who leave the LDS Church, but Iwould think that most still believe in God, but that there isn't one true church.

As a believing LDS member, I don't believe that God reveals himself EXCLUSIVELY through Mormonism. Mormonism explicitly teaches that God has enlightened man to one degree or another irrespective of their faith.

[TripletDaddy]

I will be the first one to admit it publicly...

If I ever left the Church.......Sex-o-Rama!

It would be a freakazoid of epic proportions. Even Caligula would blush.

[creekster]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I really do think if Satan were to sign up on this forum, he would be not much different from SU.

SU isn't hated 100%, per se. He's not pariah. He's good enough to keep around, but evil enough to do his darnedest to damage your faith. He walks that line.

I disagree. I think satatn would work more from the inside, leading you away with comfort, never making you feel like you were making a break. Su is what he is. We all know it. If you are seduced by his pitch it is because you want to be.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by El Paso Coug

This is a very interesting post. Essentially, you are saying that you believe that God reveals himself exclusively through Mormonism or there is no God. I don't know what most people believe who leave the LDS Church, but Iwould think that most still believe in God, but that there isn't one true church.

If Mormonism does not have more than some kernels of truth, then Indy is correct IMHO, there is no God and it doesn't matter. There are lots of good people, and there are humanistic reasons to live morally, but in the end, we're just piles of shiz.

So, if Mormonism were to be completely false, it means there is nothing. If I lost faith in Mormonism altogether, I would lose complete faith in religion, though I wouldn't lose interest in it.