Answering Seattles challenge ...

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/6/1107

Are you saying that sexual abuse is a choice? I don't think so. But that's what you are implying.

I should add that sexual abuse is more common than people think.

* 1 in 4 girls is sexually abused before the age of 18.
* 1 in 6 boys is sexually abused before the age of 18.
* 1 in 5 children are solicited sexually while on the internet. (30, 87)
* Nearly 70% of all reported sexual assaults (including assaults on adults) occur to children ages 17 and under. (76)
* An estimated 39 million survivors of childhood sexual abuse exist in America today. (1)

http://www.darkness2light.org/KnowAb...atistics_2.asp

I don't know if these stats are accurate, but they are in the ballpark of things I have heard and read before.

One point to glean here is that 15% of gays in a parade reporting sexual abuse is not a very high number when you look at the stats above.

[SeattleUte]

tooblue, I'm sorry if my posts hurt you. You tell an inspiring story of personal tragedy and triumph. You're a man of great character and an impressive artist to boot.

But I disagree that "a link between homosexuality and child abuse is well established." This in fact is an old, fortunately now discredited though still invidious prejudice against gays. The scientific community, and equally important, general public opinion (based on common experience), don't support your assertion. Anita Bryant saw her brilliant musical career go up in flames after she made this same charge against gays (she is now sorry for what she did), and the same accusation made implicitly by the Boys Scouts of America has practically wrecked the Boy Scouts' public image.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anita_Bryant

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I should add that sexual abuse is more common than people think.


http://www.darkness2light.org/KnowAb...atistics_2.asp

I don't know if these stats are accurate, but they are in the ballpark of things I have heard and read before.

One point to glean here is that 15% of gays in a parade reporting sexual abuse is not a very high number when you look at the stats above.

Not meaning to detract from tooblue's narrative, but sexual abuse also occurs in heterosexual modalities as well. Apparently our society's understanding or awareness of sexual misconduct is on the rise. Given the unhealthy appetites and unhealthy notions conveyed through the various media, it is no entirely surprising that abuse may be rampant within our society.

[myboynoah]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

http://www.ajph.org/cgi/content/abstract/97/6/1107

Are you saying that sexual abuse is a choice? I don't think so. But that's what you are implying.

The choice is how one could respond to such abuse and its consequences.

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

What makes you think we never hear of such studies?

Well, I don't. Sorry for speaking for everyone.

[TripletDaddy]

One thought I had....and this is not a rejection or attack on tooblue's post, which seems to focus on the causation aspect.....is that the shocking levels of sexual abuse occurring today seems to be a direct implication of heterosexual marriage, not homosexual marriage.

As I stated to Venkman in the other thread, why do we fear homosexual marriage when heterosexual marriages are producing some of society's most vile behavior? It is almost comical to hear someone argue that homosexual marriage will erode the institution of family when such examples of abuse is occurring in straight homes. The more we discover stories of abuse in heterosexual marriage, the less convincing the rhetoric against homosexual marriage becomes.

Also, assuming for a second that a clear causal connection can be established between child abuse and homosexuality....I still don't get why these people would not be allowed to marry? If being in a homosexual relationship is fulfilling and meaningful and loving, why should I oppose or care? I guess I should get ready for the pedophile/marry an animal response....

[Cali Coug]

I would like to see someone actually post some studies by reputable sources on the matter. A quick google search on the topic listed hundreds of results, and in skimming the first few pages of results, the links purported to be studies about 50% saying there is a link and 50% saying there isn't.

As to the claim that many people are abused, but there aren't a proportional number of homosexuals, I would ask the following: 1) how can we know how many homosexuals there are for certain; and 2) does it necessarily have to be the case that every person who is sexually abused in any manner (the number of reports of sexual abuse range from the mild to the severe) must respond in the same way (i.e., remain straight or become gay)?

I don't know the answer to this. What I do know, from anecdotal evidence, is that many people I have spoken with who were homosexual were abused as children.

Let me be equally clear that I believe homosexuality, in general, is something people are born with. I don't believe it is a "choice" in the manner being discussed here. But I do wonder if our genetic programming can be rewired following a very traumatic event. To close the door on that possibility, as some here seem to be doing, seems to me to be dismissive of the personal experiences of many people who have gone through sexual abuse as a child and later struggled with homosexual tendencies.

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by myboynoah

The choice is how one could respond to such abuse and its consequences.



Well, I don't. Sorry for speaking for everyone.

To the extent that such a response is a choice. Read my post on vomiting on the first page. Have you ever had something like that happen to you? Was it a choice? Magnify that experience by a ridiculously high number and contemplate whether a response to sexual abuse would be a choice. Seems like an unfair label to me.

[Taq Man]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Not meaning to detract from tooblue's narrative, but sexual abuse also occurs in heterosexual modalities as well. Apparently our society's understanding or awareness of sexual misconduct is on the rise. Given the unhealthy appetites and unhealthy notions conveyed through the various media, it is no entirely surprising that abuse may be rampant within our society.

This is correct. Dealing with this issue on a nearly daily basis I can tell you that its about 3 to 1 hetero to homo sexual abuse against children.

[TripletDaddy]

Originally Posted by Cali Coug

To the extent that such a response is a choice. Read my post on vomiting on the first page. Have you ever had something like that happen to you? Was it a choice? Magnify that experience by a ridiculously high number and contemplate whether a response to sexual abuse would be a choice. Seems like an unfair label to me.

I'm not making light of the subject matter, but your example reminds me of an experience I had at Lake Arrowhead scout camp as a kid.

I used to love watermelon. One year at scout camp, there was a watermelon eating contest. I volunteered to compete on behalf of my patrol.

I didn't win, but I did eat too much. I wound up throwing up a little bit later.

Since that time, I think watermelon is gross. I don't even like when it touches my other fruit on my mixed fruit plate because it leaves a taste or juice or whatever. I went from loving it to hating it in the span of about 3 hours and it has stayed with me for 25 years.

Please add this to a long list of things that prove my insanity. But I agree with your point.....our proclivities can be altered dramatically through traumatic events. Clearly, eating watermelon is not in the same category as life's more serious examples, but I found your hypo interesting.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Taq Man

This is correct. Dealing with this issue on a nearly daily basis I can tell you that its about 3 to 1 hetero to homo sexual abuse against children.

If your ratio is representative, it would suggest a higher propensity for homosexuals to abuse than for heterosexuals.