A couple of questions.

[landpoke]

I hesitate to post these as I know your people's penchant for pouncing on anybody who shows the faintest bit of interest, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. Also please keep in mind my knowledge of your beliefs is mostly derived from some videos I was shown when I was trying to make bacon with this smoking hot baptist chick back in college and, to a lessor extent, from that other board.

First question: Missouri is the promised land

My first, rather impolite, reaction to this is: Missouri? Really? Have you been there? My more thoughtful question regarding this tenant or revelation or whatever you call it is could this have been a reaction to Missouri's rather rough treatment of your forefathers? A sort of "You'll get your's Missouri. We're coming back to bust a cap in all y'all's asses." I realize I might be paraphrasing a bit.

My second question involves the trek west, when your people came out of the mountains and Brigham Young says "This is the place."

I realize he was the prophet and thus was to be followed without question, but I can't help but think that a few in the flock looked at each other and said "He's kidding, right?" I've got nothing against the Salt Lake area per se, but after trekking across Nebraska and southern Wyoming from comparatively lush Missouri and Illinois I have to imagine the rank and file were expecting something a bit more. I guess there's technically no question there, but you see what I'm getting at.

Though couched in light-hearted terms, the questions are sincere.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by landpoke

I hesitate to post these as I know your people's penchant for pouncing on anybody who shows the faintest bit of interest, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. Also please keep in mind my knowledge of your beliefs is mostly derived from some videos I was shown when I was trying to make bacon with this smoking hot baptist chick back in college and, to a lessor extent, from that other board.

First question: Missouri is the promised land

My first, rather impolite, reaction to this is: Missouri? Really? Have you been there? My more thoughtful question regarding this tenant or revelation or whatever you call it is could this have been a reaction to Missouri's rather rough treatment of your forefathers? A sort of "You'll get your's Missouri. We're coming back to bust a cap in all y'all's asses." I realize I might be paraphrasing a bit.

My second question involves the trek west, when your people came out of the mountains and Brigham Young says "This is the place."

I realize he was the prophet and thus was to be followed without question, but I can't help but think that a few in the flock looked at each other and said "He's kidding, right?" I've got nothing against the Salt Lake area per se, but after trekking across Nebraska and southern Wyoming from comparatively lush Missouri and Illinois I have to imagine the rank and file were expecting something a bit more. I guess there's technically no question there, but you see what I'm getting at.

Though couched in light-hearted terms, the questions are sincere.

There were more than a few in the flock that said "what the hell" or whatever they said in those days. The tougher ones are the ones that came by way of boat to Calif. and Brigham Young told them they had to keep on coming to Utah. Some wouldn't do it and stayed. Of course some like to tell stories about those that didn't come ended up miserable and bankrupt people in Calif.

To me it is a testament to the leadership of Brigham Young. It is up to each person to determine if the leadership was brought about divinely or he was just a great leader. A leader can get people to do what they wouldn't normally do.

[landpoke]

Any insights into Missouri? That's more puzzling to me than Utah but a long stretch.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by landpoke

Any insights into Missouri? That's more puzzling to me than Utah but a long stretch.

Nope, you will have to get input from those who are more into it.

I could tell you what I was taught as a kid, but I have found the church doesn't believe a lot of what I was taught anymore, so if I said something I could get shot down real quick.

[landpoke]

I guess I'll stick to my "bust a cap in all y'all's ass" theory until told otherwise.

[Burning Bright]

Originally Posted by landpoke

I hesitate to post these as I know your people's penchant for pouncing on anybody who shows the faintest bit of interest, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. Also please keep in mind my knowledge of your beliefs is mostly derived from some videos I was shown when I was trying to make bacon with this smoking hot baptist chick back in college and, to a lessor extent, from that other board.

First question: Missouri is the promised land

My first, rather impolite, reaction to this is: Missouri? Really? Have you been there? My more thoughtful question regarding this tenant or revelation or whatever you call it is could this have been a reaction to Missouri's rather rough treatment of your forefathers? A sort of "You'll get your's Missouri. We're coming back to bust a cap in all y'all's asses." I realize I might be paraphrasing a bit.

My second question involves the trek west, when your people came out of the mountains and Brigham Young says "This is the place."

I realize he was the prophet and thus was to be followed without question, but I can't help but think that a few in the flock looked at each other and said "He's kidding, right?" I've got nothing against the Salt Lake area per se, but after trekking across Nebraska and southern Wyoming from comparatively lush Missouri and Illinois I have to imagine the rank and file were expecting something a bit more. I guess there's technically no question there, but you see what I'm getting at.

Though couched in light-hearted terms, the questions are sincere.

Those reactions pretty much mirror mine. I'm hoping I'm dead before the saints gather to Missouri or that maybe I can stay behind to take care of church property. I don't care for Missouri at all. My sister is very found of it, though.

Adam and Eve were in Missouri. It's either where the Garden of Eve was or where they went when they were cast out of the Garden, so that might have something to do with it.

As far as Salt Lake goes, it's OK but I'm not overly fond of it. I wish the Saints would have continued on to Vancouver Island, British Columbia as they were threatening to do but I think that was just a ploy to get the US government to co-operate.

Probably one of the reasons Salt Lake was selected was because it was so remote. Nobody else wanted it.

[ute4ever]

From what I understand, when the earth was created, all of the continents were pieced together and what is currently Jackson County, Missouri, was in the center, and it housed the garden of Eden. Then during the days of Peleg (Genesis) the earth was divided into continents. Then during the flood (Genesis), Noah's ark rode the waters and landed somewhere in present-day Turkey. From that point on, biblical geography became heavily populated in the Middle East.

Then in the days of Jared (Tower of Babel - Genesis), some people sailed to the Americas including present-day Missouri, and later in the days of Jeremiah (New Testament) more people sailed to the Americas and filled the continent (Book of Mormon). Sometime in the fifth century AD, nearly all of the people inhabiting Missouri and the Americas were killed in wars and plagues.

When Christ returns and cleanses the earth, he will direct his people to build a new temple at the site where it all began: the garden of Eden.

[landpoke]

Originally Posted by Burning Bright

Those reactions pretty much mirror mine. I'm hoping I'm dead before the saints gather to Missouri or that maybe I can stay behind to take care of church property. I don't care for Missouri at all. My sister is very found of it, though.

Adam and Eve were in Missouri. It's either where the Garden of Eve was or where they went when they were cast out of the Garden, so that might have something to do with it.

As far as Salt Lake goes, it's OK but I'm not overly fond of it. I wish the Saints would have continued on to Vancouver Island, British Columbia as they were threatening to do but I think that was just a ploy to get the US government to co-operate.

Probably one of the reasons Salt Lake was selected was because it was so remote. Nobody else wanted it.

So from a doctrinal timeline standpoint, were Adam and Eve in Missouri before or after your people were there. That is, did their location change or was it not determined prior to the exodus from Missouri?

[Sleeping in EQ]

landpoke, I consider the Genesis account to be symbolic and I'm not looking for a literal Garden of Eden someplace.

Joseph Smith was looking to make Jackson County Missouri the home of communal Mormonism. Brigham Young may very well have misinterpreted or misquoted Joseph Smith in some of his comments about Missouri. All American has done research on this. I hope he pops in today.

Regardless, most Mormons no doubt believe that the Garden of Eden was in the place that is now called Missouri, and believe that the New Jerusalem will be established there. This sort of thing almost never comes up in Church meetings.

There are some scriptural passages that Mormons draw on for the idea that the New Jerusalem will be in Missouri. The Articles of Faith come from a letter Joseph Smith wrote to a Chicago newspaper editor in 1842 and serve as a kind of "quick notes" guide to basic Mormonism. The Doctrine & Covenants has 138 sections and two official declarations, the overwhelming majority of which were given by Joseph Smith as modern revelation.

Article of Faith #10

10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.

Doctrine & Covenants 42: 9, 35, 62, 67

9 Until the time shall come when it shall be revealed unto you from on high, when the city of the New Jerusalem shall be prepared, that ye may be gathered in one, that ye may be my people and I will be your God.

35 And for the purpose of purchasing lands for the public benefit of the church, and building houses of worship, and building up of the New Jerusalem which is hereafter to be revealed—

62 Thou shalt ask, and it shall be revealed unto you in mine own due time where the New Jerusalem shall be built.

67 And ye shall hereafter receive church covenants, such as shall be sufficient to establish you, both here and in the New Jerusalem.



Doctrine & Covenants 84: 2, 4

2 Yea, the word of the Lord concerning his church, established in the last days for the restoration of his people, as he has spoken by the mouth of his prophets, and for the gathering of his saints to stand upon Mount Zion, which shall be the city of New Jerusalem.

4 Verily this is the word of the Lord, that the city New Jerusalem shall be built by the gathering of the saints, beginning at this place, even the place of the temple, which temple shall be reared in this generation.

[smokymountainrain]

Originally Posted by landpoke

I hesitate to post these as I know your people's penchant for pouncing on anybody who shows the faintest bit of interest, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me. Also please keep in mind my knowledge of your beliefs is mostly derived from some videos I was shown when I was trying to make bacon with this smoking hot baptist chick back in college and, to a lessor extent, from that other board.

First question: Missouri is the promised land

My first, rather impolite, reaction to this is: Missouri? Really? Have you been there? My more thoughtful question regarding this tenant or revelation or whatever you call it is could this have been a reaction to Missouri's rather rough treatment of your forefathers? A sort of "You'll get your's Missouri. We're coming back to bust a cap in all y'all's asses." I realize I might be paraphrasing a bit.

My second question involves the trek west, when your people came out of the mountains and Brigham Young says "This is the place."

I realize he was the prophet and thus was to be followed without question, but I can't help but think that a few in the flock looked at each other and said "He's kidding, right?" I've got nothing against the Salt Lake area per se, but after trekking across Nebraska and southern Wyoming from comparatively lush Missouri and Illinois I have to imagine the rank and file were expecting something a bit more. I guess there's technically no question there, but you see what I'm getting at.

Though couched in light-hearted terms, the questions are sincere.

What's your address? I know a couple nice young men in your area who would love to visit with you in your home.