Big plot hole/logical absurdity in Nephi-Laban story

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by All-American

Speaking of notes of insincerity, why do you bother with "big plot holes or logical absurdities" when you think it's all bogus, anyway?

The Book of Mormon's literary qualities are a worthy subject that's hardly been addressed.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

"12 And it came to pass that the Spirit said unto me again: Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands . .

. . .

18 Therefore I did obey the voice of the Spirit, and took Laban by the hair of the head, and I smote off his head with his own sword."

Okay, so "the spirit" told Nephi to kill Laban. This was no mere prompting. "The spirit" had a "voice" that said, "Slay him, for the Lord hath delivered him into thy hands."

I understand a deistic God wholly disciplined in his refusal to intervene in the affairs of men (when I say men I mean women too), relying instead on men themselves to carry out the Providential plan (even as God, from his far removed perch, has a kind of omniscient confidence that things will work out fine in the end).

I understand a Gnostic God, limited and bound by natural laws in his ability to intervene in the affairs of men, but who, like a cunning lawyer, will negotiate those laws as best he can, to try indirectly to induce a desired result or reach a compromise with the Adversary.

I understand an omnipotent God, fully unfettered and unrestrained in his penchant to direct the affairs of men to achieve his desired ends; for example, parting the Red Sea and burying Pharoah's forces in an avalanche of water.

I assume the God who got Laban drunk and then sent a spirit to tell Nephi to behead drunken Laban with his own sword was operating on the third model. Why not just appear before before Laban--God himself or through an angel or a spirit--and command Laban to give up the plates or else (a la parting the Red Sea)? I bet he would have given them up. Getting Laban drunk and then telling Nephi he better do the dirty business of beheading Laban or else seems to me convoluted and lacking the directness and artistry and drama of parting the Red Sea and drowning Pharaoh's army. It also involves a gratuitous killing. Laban had his flaws, but he was not Stalin.

I look at the the BoM, and of course this story, as a parable. I couldn't care less about the literalness of it. It's a great and deep story.
Laban is Nephi. The part of Nephi that is preventing Nephi from obtaining The Word (Christ). Laban is the natural man. You can't reason with your natural man (first attempt), or buy-off your natural man (be *really* obedient, etc), you have to do the most frightening thing possible, kill it, remove it's head. And he removed it with the cross (sword), the only way. Then Laban/Nephi (Nephi was both Laban and Nephi -he wore his clothes, spoke in his voice, but without only the menacing part of Laban), is easily able to just walk in and obtain the word (the Christ).

[All-American]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

The Book of Mormon's literary qualities are a worthy subject that's hardly been addressed.

Oh, in THAT case, I retract what was said about your insincerity. [/sarcasm]

Come on, even Mormons don't really think of the Book of Mormon as great literature.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by All-American

Oh, in THAT case, I retract what was said about your insincerity. [/sarcasm]

Come on, even Mormons don't really think of the Book of Mormon as great literature.

In literary terms, it's average, but in terms of moral stories and parables, it's wonderful.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by Brian

I look at the the BoM, and of course this story, as a parable. I couldn't care less about the literalness of it. It's a great and deep story.
Laban is Nephi. The part of Nephi that is preventing Nephi from obtaining The Word (Christ). Laban is the natural man. You can't reason with your natural man (first attempt), or buy-off your natural man (be *really* obedient, etc), you have to do the most frightening thing possible, kill it, remove it's head. And he removed it with the cross (sword), the only way. Then Laban/Nephi (Nephi was both Laban and Nephi -he wore his clothes, spoke in his voice, but without only the menacing part of Laban), is easily able to just walk in and obtain the word (the Christ).

Wow. Intriguing metaphor.

I'm not sold on the idea that it's not a literal event, but still... interesting.

[All-American]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Wow. Intriguing metaphor.

I'm not sold on the idea that it's not a literal event, but still... interesting.

I don't think you have to believe that it was not a literal event to appreciate the symbolism.

[JohnnyLingo]

Originally Posted by All-American

I don't think you have to believe that it was not a literal event to appreciate the symbolism.

And I do appreciate the symbolism.

[Brian]

Originally Posted by JohnnyLingo

Wow. Intriguing metaphor.

I'm not sold on the idea that it's not a literal event, but still... interesting.

why does it matter if it's literal?
I was overcome with emotion as strongly reading scripture when I read le mis. I had just become a father when I read it, and it made a huge impact on how I approached my responsibility.
And that was a totally made up story.

Reading is much more fun it doesn't have to be literal.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Brian

why does it matter if it's literal?
I was overcome with emotion as strongly reading scripture when I read le mis. I had just become a father when I read it, and it made a huge impact on how I approached my responsibility.
And that was a totally made up story.

Reading is much more fun it doesn't have to be literal.

If man can conceive an idea or a story, it may have occurred. Once planted inside the mind of man, it can serve to elucidate.

Les Miserable is truly a marvelous work on Redemption, a finer work may not exist.

[FMCoug]

The part we're missing here is the benefit to Nephi. Could God have gotten the plates to Lehi some other way? Of course. But the story is about Nephi's willingness to obey, not just the obtaining of the plates. God didn't have to tell Abraham to sacrifice Isaac either.