REAL Roots of Cougars' Struggles - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

TheSizzle36 · 08-03-2006, 06:41 PM

What are the top three reasons for the Cougars' struggles in football over the last 7 or 8 years? Just curious. Go ahead and pick the top 3 reasons why.

Venkman · 08-03-2006, 08:19 PM

you guys that choose other - please elaborate. I'm interested...

TheSizzle36 · 08-03-2006, 08:26 PM

I was one who selected Other...

I should have put an option as the evolution of the college football game, in that the environment in which BYU did it's damage before has made it harder for them to do today.

TheSizzle36 · 08-03-2006, 08:29 PM

Also, if somebody wants to link this thread to CB, it would be interesting to see some discussion of this and get the poll results higher.

Goatnapper'96 · 08-03-2006, 08:29 PM

improvement of conference foes, the impact of the HC and other.

I define other as the changing nature of football. BYU had a tactical advantage for a very long time. BYU football, at least the part we are talking about, was established on a passing offense that the opponents were unable to defend. Call it revolutionary, call it that BYU always had great assistants funneling through the program or call it luck. But the reality is that until about the early 90's, BYU was able to move the ball and score on anyone and could do it without having better athletes than the opponent. I believe that as more and more teams began using the west coast offense more and more teams learned how to defend it. As college football evolved towards more and more speed and athleticism instead of overwhelming power, this negatively impacted BYU. I think the coaching staff began to react to this trend, and we saw that in the '96 team. However, I feel that the issues with the HC started mounting at that time. The attrition of non-LDS skill players over the past decade has been flat out devestating. This decade we have endured not only that trend but also attrition of LDS players, which also hurt. I think the LDS trend was an anomaly due to the program uncertainity and poor leadership. I think that nut is being solved. I am hopefull that Bronco is solving the other puzzle with respect to the non-LDS kids. I was worried beyond all description the past 18 months that the would stop recruiting them for all intents and purposes, but I must say that his recruiting for this upcoming season indicates that he has not. In 4 years we can evualuate if his new style is trully bringing in kids who can make it through BYU.

tooblue · 08-03-2006, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venkman

you guys that choose other - please elaborate. I'm interested...

I voted other because I think it's due to a combination of several items to choose from.

I would say it was a combo of better competition plus the loss of Ricks football which meant a significant drop in talented depth needed to mitigate missions and HC casualties.

tooblue · 08-03-2006, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tooblue

I voted other because I think it's due to a combination of several items to choose from.

I would say it was a combo of better competition plus the loss of Ricks football which meant a significant drop in talented depth needed to mitigate missions and HC casualties.

Talented depth is the only thing that really seperates the best BCS programs and everyone else ... it was the difference in the BC game last season.

Goatnapper'96 · 08-03-2006, 08:41 PM

as the woes started a good half decade before football at Ricks was discontinued. Even when Lavell was picking up JCs frequently, the majority came from outside of Ricks.

Additionally, I think BYU could still pick up JC kids and stow away LDS kids at Snow or College of Eastern Arizona.

I don't want to turn this into a thread about Gary Crowton, but I understand that he did not want to use JC transfers until he knew he needed to upgrade in a hurry in 2004. Perhaps Lavell left the dude with too many albatrosses in the forms of white mormon kids from Orem around his neck and Gary would not cut players, but clearly I think the guy should have gotten more JC players earlier. However, it is likely he would have picked some bad apples that were not good fits.

I think for many reasons BYU will not seek after JC transfers like Lavell did. I think the biggest reason is academic issues.

mpfunk · 08-03-2006, 08:43 PM

I enjoyed choosing incompetent administration. I still stand by my claim that you should hire danoconda as the AD and let him put into place his vision of BYU football that will convert the entire world to the LDS church and make you bigger then Notre Dame.

tooblue · 08-03-2006, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goatnapper'96

as the woes started a good half decade before football at Ricks was discontinued. Even when Lavell was picking up JCs frequently, the majority came from outside of Ricks.

Additionally, I think BYU could still pick up JC kids and stow away LDS kids at Snow or College of Eastern Arizona.

I don't want to turn this into a thread about Gary Crowton, but I understand that he did not want to use JC transfers until he knew he needed to upgrade in a hurry in 2004. Perhaps Lavell left the dude with too many albatrosses in the forms of white mormon kids from Orem around his neck and Gary would not cut players, but clearly I think the guy should have gotten more JC players earlier. However, it is likely he would have picked some bad apples that were not good fits.

I think for many reasons BYU will not seek after JC transfers like Lavell did. I think the biggest reason is academic issues.

I buy it from the stand point that it was better than a quality program ... you woefully underestimate the quality of walk-ons etc. from Ricks that added great depth to spell your #1 and #2 guy for a series here and there ... Lavell left the cupboard bare due in part to the fact that one of the few cupboards he knew of was no longer there.

View Poll Results: Why have the Cougars' fallen/struggled
Better MWC Competition	13	46.43%
Loss of Ricks football program	8	28.57%
Tighter Honor Code restrictions/enforcement	10	35.71%
Incompetent Coaches	9	32.14%
Incompetent Administration	7	25.00%
Lack of talent in players	9	32.14%
Poor Scheme selection for talent level	6	21.43%
Loss of LaVell	5	17.86%
Injuries	3	10.71%
Other	8	28.57%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 28. You may not vote on this poll

08-03-2006, 08:29 PM	#5
Goatnapper'96 Recruiting Coordinator/Bosom Inspector Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,412	As my 3 I chose improvement of conference foes, the impact of the HC and other. I define other as the changing nature of football. BYU had a tactical advantage for a very long time. BYU football, at least the part we are talking about, was established on a passing offense that the opponents were unable to defend. Call it revolutionary, call it that BYU always had great assistants funneling through the program or call it luck. But the reality is that until about the early 90's, BYU was able to move the ball and score on anyone and could do it without having better athletes than the opponent. I believe that as more and more teams began using the west coast offense more and more teams learned how to defend it. As college football evolved towards more and more speed and athleticism instead of overwhelming power, this negatively impacted BYU. I think the coaching staff began to react to this trend, and we saw that in the '96 team. However, I feel that the issues with the HC started mounting at that time. The attrition of non-LDS skill players over the past decade has been flat out devestating. This decade we have endured not only that trend but also attrition of LDS players, which also hurt. I think the LDS trend was an anomaly due to the program uncertainity and poor leadership. I think that nut is being solved. I am hopefull that Bronco is solving the other puzzle with respect to the non-LDS kids. I was worried beyond all description the past 18 months that the would stop recruiting them for all intents and purposes, but I must say that his recruiting for this upcoming season indicates that he has not. In 4 years we can evualuate if his new style is trully bringing in kids who can make it through BYU. __________________ She had a psychiatrist who said because I didn't trust the water system, the school system, the government, I was paranoid," he said. "I had a psychiatrist who said her psychiatrist was stupid."

08-03-2006, 08:41 PM	#8
Goatnapper'96 Recruiting Coordinator/Bosom Inspector Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,412	I don't buy the Ricks belief..... as the woes started a good half decade before football at Ricks was discontinued. Even when Lavell was picking up JCs frequently, the majority came from outside of Ricks. Additionally, I think BYU could still pick up JC kids and stow away LDS kids at Snow or College of Eastern Arizona. I don't want to turn this into a thread about Gary Crowton, but I understand that he did not want to use JC transfers until he knew he needed to upgrade in a hurry in 2004. Perhaps Lavell left the dude with too many albatrosses in the forms of white mormon kids from Orem around his neck and Gary would not cut players, but clearly I think the guy should have gotten more JC players earlier. However, it is likely he would have picked some bad apples that were not good fits. I think for many reasons BYU will not seek after JC transfers like Lavell did. I think the biggest reason is academic issues. __________________ She had a psychiatrist who said because I didn't trust the water system, the school system, the government, I was paranoid," he said. "I had a psychiatrist who said her psychiatrist was stupid."

08-03-2006, 06:41 PM	#1
TheSizzle36 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,786	REAL Roots of Cougars' Struggles What are the top three reasons for the Cougars' struggles in football over the last 7 or 8 years? Just curious. Go ahead and pick the top 3 reasons why.

08-03-2006, 08:19 PM	#2
Venkman Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South Jordan, UT Posts: 1,799	you guys that choose other - please elaborate. I'm interested...

08-03-2006, 08:26 PM	#3
TheSizzle36 Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 3,786	I was one who selected Other... I should have put an option as the evolution of the college football game, in that the environment in which BYU did it's damage before has made it harder for them to do today.

08-03-2006, 08:43 PM	#9
mpfunk Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,619	I enjoyed choosing incompetent administration. I still stand by my claim that you should hire danoconda as the AD and let him put into place his vision of BYU football that will convert the entire world to the LDS church and make you bigger then Notre Dame.