Last night I'm driving home from work at like 7:00

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I don't really have an opionion on the film or whether BY ordered the hit. I was interested to see that you suggested it didn't matter to you whether he did.

I'm not a "liberal."

You have to be careful when you say something doesn't matter to you. In this day of political correctness, if you say "it doesn't matter" you can get charged with all sorts of things. A biggot, homo-phobe, insensitive, and on and on.

What I was suggesting was it doesn't matter when it comes to my salvation. That act doesn't change whether he was a prophet or not. If he did order it, the consequences will be between he and God. I am not in a position to judge what those consequences should be. If he ordered it, with my limited understanding of things, I would declare, shame on him. However, I wouldn't then say I renounce my membership in the church.

I might actually come closer to leaving the fold over the blue and white shirt thing.

[NorCal Cat]

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

I'm not a "liberal."

Oh really? What are you then? A "progressive", like Hillary says?

[Indy Coug]

Originally Posted by NorCal Cat

Oh really? What are you then? A "progressive", like Hillary says?

He's an unimaginative contrarian troll.

[creekster]

SU is getting an unfair rap here (and those are words I never really expected to say). Tex's comment, as I have said, was probabyl not uttered with rascist intent, especially in the context of Indy's ealrlier post abotu border control and improved legal immigration. Nonetheless, SU is correct that this sort of comment is frequently used to mask rascist sentiment in the immigration debates and SEIQ points out that this has long been the case. I am nto sure what you are all arguing about. Can anyone deny that many opponents of immigration are rascist? Doesnt' it seem most likely that Tex was relaly trying to say what he clarified as being his point?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by Sleeping in EQ

Nobody with any sense wants more murderers in this country. If that was your point, it seems like it could have been forgone.

Which is why racist discourse seems to be lurking around that post. What you wrote invokes the old, "well, there are the good, clean-cut articulate ones and then there are the bad ones," rhetoric that gets deployed against most any minority (including against whites when they are in the minority) by bigots who want to soft-pedal their prejudices.

Anti-immigration rhetoric and racism have gone hand in hand for a long time. Historically, nobody in the U.S. talked about immigrant quotas when it was pasty Western and Northern Europeans coming over (except those "hard scrabble" Irish Catholics, of course). "When the sweet Norwegian couple moved in across the street it was just wonderful. But those Vietnamese? They better stay in their own neighborhood." People started talking about quotas and about slowing the "tide" of immigration when it was all of those "other" kinds of people. We don't want too many of "them," it was said.

No doubt, Tex, you weren't considering this context when you posted. I'm sure you'll clarify all of this toot sweet.

Honestly, all I meant to say is that I want law-abiding, productive immigrants in, and law-breaking, unproductive immigrants kept out.

That y'all have warped it into an entirely irrelevant conversion on racism underscores the bizarre hypersensitivity this board has with the subject.

[Detroitdad]

Throw out the racism charge on Tex and bring on the xenophobia charges.

I don't think Tex is a racist nor do I think he intended this as racist, but I do think his source was intended to push the fear that is at the heart of xenophobia.

[SeattleUte]

Originally Posted by Detroitdad

Throw out the racism charge on Tex and bring on the xenophobia charges.

I don't think Tex is a racist nor do I think he intended this as racist, but I do think his source was intended to push the fear that is at the heart of xenophobia.

xenophobia and racism are close siblings. I'm not sure I called Tex a racist in this thread. But clearly his comment echoed an infamous and oft-repeated racist phrase.

[All-American]

So, let me try to sum up what I've learned here. To want secure borders is racist; the alternative, however, is to not care about murder. No wonder nobody can win in this argument.

[Sleeping in EQ]

Originally Posted by All-American

So, let me try to sum up what I've learned here. To want secure borders is racist; the alternative, however, is to not care about murder. No wonder nobody can win in this argument.

I am definitely not arguing that to want to secure borders is racist. Although racism, and as DD points out, xenophobia, have long been leveraged in the name of such, there are other ways of arguing for a secure border.