Is Seattle's version of the Church a caricature? - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

Archaea · 06-28-2006, 04:01 PM

Seattle seems to have this little Rocky Mountain vision of some segments of a 19th century Church, where everybody believed single-mindedly in simple creationism, the Great Apostasy, and that the Lamanites sole genetic progenitors were Israelites.

Apparently, our friend has never met a convert from outside that region, read Sunstone, or spoken to anybody who doesn't meet his caricature of the Church.

Frankly, although I have met a few people who embody what Seattle decries, they are the minority and indeed merely a caricature of the real living people of a living, evolving church.

I feel badly that Seattle endured the "horror" of having to collect fast offerings by an oppressive priesthood father, had to serve in Equador (which played okay but not as well as they should have in World Cup) and had the opportunity of becoming a Ute. It seems not to have so impaired his personal and professional career.

Quisqueyano · 06-28-2006, 04:06 PM

That's funny archea. But that has been my observation as well.

SeattleUte · 06-28-2006, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Archaea

Seattle seems to have this little Rocky Mountain vision of some segments of a 19th century Church, where everybody believed single-mindedly in simple creationism, the Great Apostasy, and that the Lamanites sole genetic progenitors were Israelites.

Apparently, our friend has never met a convert from outside that region, read Sunstone, or spoken to anybody who doesn't meet his caricature of the Church.

Frankly, although I have met a few people who embody what Seattle decries, they are the minority and indeed merely a caricature of the real living people of a living, evolving church.

I feel badly that Seattle endured the "horror" of having to collect fast offerings by an oppressive priesthood father, had to serve in Equador (which played okay but not as well as they should have in World Cup) and had the opportunity of becoming a Ute. It seems not to have so impaired his personal and professional career.

I realize I have stumbled into an unusally enlightened nest of LDS here. As for whether you all represent the mainstream in the faith I refer you to CB membership numbers and posting figures vs. same for CG.

Robin · 06-28-2006, 04:43 PM

Who are we kidding? The church is what it is. Sure, most people have some little corner of their life in which they take special interest in a certain field, and most people have some pet theory about one thing or another.

The question is this -- what is the church as a whole? What are the general cultural trends? To what extent are those trends promoted by the leaders of the church?

The church is monolithic enough in size that I think we can be honest about what is going on in general while still recognizing that on the individual level there is all kinds of creative thought and energy.

MikeWaters · 06-28-2006, 04:59 PM

I think the nature of apostasy is pride, and of course with pride, comes caricature of those that are in the faith.

I have a friend who apostasized to the extent that he attends a Baptist Congregation. He was going to go back to SLC for his mission reunion, but he chickened out because he couldn't bear the idea of telling his mission president he had left the church. Anyway, in the course of preparing to go to the reunion, he emailed many of his compadres and shared his story of leaving the church, etc. He said he was suprised at the diversity of experience in the church that they shared, their compassion, and the depth of their membership. He said that he had completely underestimated them (i.e. made a cariacature in his mind).

I'm not really interested in debating whether the nature of apostasy is pride or not, it's just my opinion. Neither am I saying that SU doesn't have a nuanced view of the church. But the fact is that there are a lot of people in the church that have views probably not that different than SU, with the exception that they have a sufficient amount of faith in the church, that they remain, believe, and participate.

Quisqueyano · 06-28-2006, 05:11 PM

Both of my parents are intellectuals. My dad was a curriculum editor for the church for 20 years, has written for every church publication and currently edits and writes for Sunstone in his retirement. He is a wealth of knowledge and understanding like nobody I have ever known and is always pointing me in new direction of gosple thought. I share this because there was a time when I would sit in gosple doctrine and EQ and marvel at how much more I know than everybody else. As the years have passed, I realize that I never gave the general population of the church enough credit, and when I am in church, I sit among intellectual giants.
I agree with MW. Pride leads to the fall. And thinking we are smarter than everybody else can lead to thinking we know more that the Lords anointed leaders. Apostasy is not far from there.

SeattleUte · 06-28-2006, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think the nature of apostasy is pride, and of course with pride, comes caricature of those that are in the faith.

I have a friend who apostasized to the extent that he attends a Baptist Congregation. He was going to go back to SLC for his mission reunion, but he chickened out because he couldn't bear the idea of telling his mission president he had left the church. Anyway, in the course of preparing to go to the reunion, he emailed many of his compadres and shared his story of leaving the church, etc. He said he was suprised at the diversity of experience in the church that they shared, their compassion, and the depth of their membership. He said that he had completely underestimated them (i.e. made a cariacature in his mind).

I'm not really interested in debating whether the nature of apostasy is pride or not, it's just my opinion. Neither am I saying that SU doesn't have a nuanced view of the church. But the fact is that there are a lot of people in the church that have views probably not that different than SU, with the exception that they have a sufficient amount of faith in the church, that they remain, believe, and participate.

What I like about CougarBoard is it gives me so much fodder for self- vindication and pride.

Jeff Lebowski · 06-28-2006, 05:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SeattleUte

What I like about CougarBoard is it gives me so much fodder for self- vindication and pride.

LOL. Good one.

Robin · 06-28-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think the nature of apostasy is pride, and of course with pride, comes caricature of those that are in the faith.

I have a friend who apostasized to the extent that he attends a Baptist Congregation. He was going to go back to SLC for his mission reunion, but he chickened out because he couldn't bear the idea of telling his mission president he had left the church. Anyway, in the course of preparing to go to the reunion, he emailed many of his compadres and shared his story of leaving the church, etc. He said he was suprised at the diversity of experience in the church that they shared, their compassion, and the depth of their membership. He said that he had completely underestimated them (i.e. made a cariacature in his mind).

I'm not really interested in debating whether the nature of apostasy is pride or not, it's just my opinion. Neither am I saying that SU doesn't have a nuanced view of the church. But the fact is that there are a lot of people in the church that have views probably not that different than SU, with the exception that they have a sufficient amount of faith in the church, that they remain, believe, and participate.

Is MikeWaters' version of 'apostates' a caricature?

MikeWaters · 06-28-2006, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robin

Is MikeWaters' version of 'apostates' a caricature?

I include complete self-absorption, selfishness, and a twisted sense of ethics and morality with pride.

06-28-2006, 04:01 PM	#1
Archaea Assistant to the Regional Manager Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: The Orgasmatron Posts: 24,338	Is Seattle's version of the Church a caricature? Seattle seems to have this little Rocky Mountain vision of some segments of a 19th century Church, where everybody believed single-mindedly in simple creationism, the Great Apostasy, and that the Lamanites sole genetic progenitors were Israelites. Apparently, our friend has never met a convert from outside that region, read Sunstone, or spoken to anybody who doesn't meet his caricature of the Church. Frankly, although I have met a few people who embody what Seattle decries, they are the minority and indeed merely a caricature of the real living people of a living, evolving church. I feel badly that Seattle endured the "horror" of having to collect fast offerings by an oppressive priesthood father, had to serve in Equador (which played okay but not as well as they should have in World Cup) and had the opportunity of becoming a Ute. It seems not to have so impaired his personal and professional career. __________________ Ἓν οἶδα ὅτι οὐδὲν οἶδα

06-28-2006, 04:43 PM	#4
Robin Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 961	Who are we kidding? The church is what it is. Sure, most people have some little corner of their life in which they take special interest in a certain field, and most people have some pet theory about one thing or another. The question is this -- what is the church as a whole? What are the general cultural trends? To what extent are those trends promoted by the leaders of the church? The church is monolithic enough in size that I think we can be honest about what is going on in general while still recognizing that on the individual level there is all kinds of creative thought and energy. Last edited by Robin; 06-28-2006 at 04:46 PM.

06-28-2006, 04:06 PM	#2
Quisqueyano Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lehi Utah Posts: 320	That's funny archea. But that has been my observation as well.

06-28-2006, 04:59 PM	#5
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	I think the nature of apostasy is pride, and of course with pride, comes caricature of those that are in the faith. I have a friend who apostasized to the extent that he attends a Baptist Congregation. He was going to go back to SLC for his mission reunion, but he chickened out because he couldn't bear the idea of telling his mission president he had left the church. Anyway, in the course of preparing to go to the reunion, he emailed many of his compadres and shared his story of leaving the church, etc. He said he was suprised at the diversity of experience in the church that they shared, their compassion, and the depth of their membership. He said that he had completely underestimated them (i.e. made a cariacature in his mind). I'm not really interested in debating whether the nature of apostasy is pride or not, it's just my opinion. Neither am I saying that SU doesn't have a nuanced view of the church. But the fact is that there are a lot of people in the church that have views probably not that different than SU, with the exception that they have a sufficient amount of faith in the church, that they remain, believe, and participate.

06-28-2006, 05:11 PM	#6
Quisqueyano Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Lehi Utah Posts: 320	Both of my parents are intellectuals. My dad was a curriculum editor for the church for 20 years, has written for every church publication and currently edits and writes for Sunstone in his retirement. He is a wealth of knowledge and understanding like nobody I have ever known and is always pointing me in new direction of gosple thought. I share this because there was a time when I would sit in gosple doctrine and EQ and marvel at how much more I know than everybody else. As the years have passed, I realize that I never gave the general population of the church enough credit, and when I am in church, I sit among intellectual giants. I agree with MW. Pride leads to the fall. And thinking we are smarter than everybody else can lead to thinking we know more that the Lords anointed leaders. Apostasy is not far from there.