We're screwed

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Archaea

I understand that message won't sell, but it doesn't make it less true.

So we have to come up with ideas that eventually don't work better than the Dems. That's fucked.

People hate govt. But they like roads. They like firefighters. They like having police. They like courts and jails. They like medical schools and public hospitals. They like public universities. They like universal education. They like having a military. They really don't see how this country could operate without laws and government.

The republicans have proven, definitively, that they cannot govern.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

People hate govt. But they like roads. They like firefighters. They like having police. They like courts and jails. They like medical schools and public hospitals. They like public universities. They like universal education. They like having a military. They really don't see how this country could operate without laws and government.

The republicans have proven, definitively, that they cannot govern.

People like it all. Give me everything for nothing. Or take it from somebody else.

The process is grossly unreasonable as it is. Nobody wants to pay for it. So why doesn't any of the electorate curtail what we expect from government?

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

People hate govt. But they like roads. They like firefighters. They like having police. They like courts and jails. They like medical schools and public hospitals. They like public universities. They like universal education. They like having a military. They really don't see how this country could operate without laws and government.

The republicans have proven, definitively, that they cannot govern.

Even the hardest core libertarians aren't against roads, police, jails and national defense. The republicans have never been that anti-government. But their problem now is that at least on government size and economic issues they're not that much different than the socialist leaning dems. That's why they seem to have no message right now other than social issues and war, which are not resonating.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Even the hardest core libertarians aren't against roads, police, jails and national defense. The republicans have never been that anti-government. But their problem now is that at least on government size and economic issues they're not that much different than the socialist leaning dems. That's why they seem to have no message right now other than social issues and war, which are not resonating.

But they are against the other things I mentioned?

[BlueK]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

But they are against the other things I mentioned?

Who knows. Depends on who you talk to. I thought we were talking about the Republicans. But none of the things on your list are the first things Libertarians would go after. But no worries, there are no libertarians in the GOP anymore. They've been pretty much cleansed in this purification movement.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Even the hardest core libertarians aren't against roads, police, jails and national defense. The republicans have never been that anti-government. But their problem now is that at least on government size and economic issues they're not that much different than the socialist leaning dems. That's why they seem to have no message right now other than social issues and war, which are not resonating.

and that is part of Mike's hyperbole. Most people agree on minimal level of government services, but the politics of it all is that many politicians divert from primary activities to secondary activities in order to create a need for the primary activities and functions of government. It's a vicious cycle. Don't pay for the roads, pay for the pork first, and then say, "see Reps aren't paying for the roads."

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

His ideas are not new and not ideas.

Spend. Spend. Spend. and when you're done spend some more.

After that tax the hell out of them.

Where's the idea Mike?

Spend to create a stimulus by using pork to get there.

Spend to create national health insurance.

I see no ideas just throwing money at everything.

Sorry- you only accept that he has ideas if those ideas don't cost any money to implement?

[Cali Coug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

actually Obama has a lot of ideas. It's just that most conservatives don't agree with them.

GOP is short of ideas, esp. new ones.

Precisely.