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09-29-2006, 08:34 PM | #1 | |
Demiurge
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"Bundle of Rights" argument
Quote:
What is not clear is if they also oppose a la carte "rights" for homosexuals. Contracts, visitations, inheritance, etc. I'm not sure I understand the logic of opposing the "bundled" rights, but not opposing a la carte. But if you do oppose a la carte, in my mind, that is lunacy and complete abrogration of liberty. That's the problem with talking so much about this. You dig yourself a hole that doesn't make sense. For example, in the piece, they conflate eternal marriage with secular marriage. Is the definition of marriage what God says, or what the state says? It sure isn't clear in that article, because they endorse both. http://www.lds.org/newsroom/issues/a...-4-202,00.html |
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09-29-2006, 08:39 PM | #2 | |
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I should have continued reading before posting. Wickman continues:
Quote:
One man's bundle could be another man's a la carte. |
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09-29-2006, 08:46 PM | #3 |
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The legalese is mesmerizing.
Surely interfering with another's fundamental liberty to direct or participate in certain rights ought to be taboo (clear to me at least). Why should we care anyway? Is the "bundle of rights" granted by the government the purpose of marriage. Or is it the spiritual effects of doing so? This ought to be a purely secular issue, if we don't like those types of marriages we don't preform them. |
09-29-2006, 08:51 PM | #4 |
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Seems to me the only marriage that God recognizes is the kind in the temple. Heterosexual sex within civil marriage (or it's equivalent--in my mission couples need not be married formally to be baptized) is allowed. But that state-defined civil marriage must be what? There is clearly no one single standard.
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09-29-2006, 08:58 PM | #5 |
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I agree that the only type of marriage recognized by God are temple marriages. Therefore, I am unsure what the grave danger. I get a strong whiff of homophobia from this.
The "but they're gay, they don't deserve rights " argument is maybe not the strongest one in an open society. |
09-29-2006, 09:09 PM | #6 | |
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Quote:
Devil is in the details there. What "rights" are we talking about here that you would discribe as a "fundamental liberty." And when you use that phrase, do you mean in the constitutional sense or in the "nature law" or "inalienable rights" sense? Just trying to understand what you mean.
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09-29-2006, 09:21 PM | #7 |
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I don't know if inheritance is a fundamental right. But to say that inheritance setups are okay, except for ones involving gay partners, is crazy in my book.
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09-29-2006, 09:26 PM | #8 |
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if a member opposes adoption by his gay sibling, should he oppose the sibling and his child from staying with the members family, so as not to condone the adoption?
you take this to the full logic of not condoning, and pretty soon you are on absurd pharisaical (is this a word?) grounds. |
09-29-2006, 09:27 PM | #9 |
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It's sophistry.
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09-29-2006, 09:39 PM | #10 | |
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Quote:
If you are gay and want everything to go to your partner, so be it. I don't know of anywhere you can't do that. In fact, most places you can leave everything for the benefit of a pet. Ditto for leaving your partner in charge of medical decisions or giving them power over your person or property in the event of incapacity. Why does it make more sense for intestacy laws to govern a gay person's estate after death than it does for that person's will to govern. Are we all talking about the same thing?
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