Masturbation and sex ed - cougarguard.com — unofficial BYU Cougars / LDS sports, football, basketball forum and message board

minn_stat · 10-17-2007, 03:34 AM

My two oldest children (10 yr old daughter, 9 yr old son) are getting to the age where sex education is becoming a bit more, shall we say, complicated. That is, instead of using simple generalities to answer their questions, more details are becoming necessary, and they will soon be at the age where the discussions should necessarily begin to include their own feelings and thoughts, as well as discussions about the morality issues surrounding sexuality.

So far, things have gone pretty good. Last spring, two birds on the deck railing that were spotted by my then 8 year old son instigated a great, factual discussion on intercourse, with the two of them both present. Not too detailed or graphic, proper terms were used, no one seemed overly embarassed with the discussion. I was pretty happy how it went, and got a chuckle as they grasped the idea and commented how gross it was to think mom and dad had done that four times (we have four kids total). I told them it didn't always work, so they figured that eight times was doubly gross. I decided to leave it at that.

One subject that I've given a bit of thought is how to treat the topic of masturbation. My own experience is that the degree of condemnation of it that often occurs in an LDS context can lead to excessive guilt and feelings of isolation, unworthiness, and failure. It often has the additional effect of making LDS kids unwilling to even discuss it and related subjects with their parents or others who might appropriately address concerns and questions. I've heard others express the same sentiment.

Yet on the other hand, there are real dangers in having a too laissez-faire attitude as well. So I'm looking for appropriate ways to consider handling the issue so I'll be prepared when the situation arises. I realize bringing up this topic will likely produce its fair share of off-color humor and probably some controversy on the subject, but I'm truly interested in getting some serious feedback. I mostly lurk around here, but I've come to have quite a bit of respect for a fairly diverse group of posters on this board, and this is a subject that is usually easier discussed in a forum like this than it is with my "non-virtual" community.

A few of my initial thoughts to follow...

minn_stat · 10-17-2007, 03:39 AM

One of my primary lines of thought is to not focus too much on the act itself, but on some of the underlying principles. How it can lead to self-absorption and over indulging one’s appetites, and to the degree it becomes habitual, it begins to chain us.

I’ve also thought of using a grade/GPA simile. Allowing it to become a common occurrence, and a method of dealing with uncomfortable emotions on a regular basis, is like having a 1.5 GPA. Not a good thing, something that could cause you trouble for years to come. But a 3.5 GPA is something to feel pretty darn good about, even if the ideal is a 4.0. I’d certainly not be condemnatory of a 3.5, although I may give some gentle encouragement towards raising it.

Just a brief introduction to some of my musing about the subject.

MikeWaters · 10-17-2007, 03:51 AM

LOL, someone is rubbing matches over gasoline.

I'll let soonercoug weigh in first.

(I'm assuming this is a serious question--the thing is that it was recently extensively discussed, ad nauseum).

minn_stat · 10-17-2007, 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

LOL, someone is rubbing matches over gasoline.

I'll let soonercoug weigh in first.

(I'm assuming this is a serious question--the thing is that it was recently extensively discussed, ad nauseum).

Sorry, my apologies, I must have missed it. Although I've seen quite a few posts on the general subject, I've never read posts on this particular aspect of it.

il Padrino Ute · 10-17-2007, 04:03 AM

MikeWaters · 10-17-2007, 04:05 AM

One of the opinions that was offered was that masturbation is just fine, and that his father instructed him to never answer any questions about it from a Bishop.

So that is probably one extreme. On the other hand BYU71 was taught he would go blind (and secondarily important, hell) if he did it.

So that's the other extreme.

Probably the preferred middle for many Saints would be to teach that it is wrong, that self-control and self-discipline are virtues, but to not freak out if the goal is not reached.

The main thing I have seen happen in the church is little to no talk about it. Or very brief quick stern statements "it is a sin" with no other discussion about its relative weight or importance.

minn_stat · 10-17-2007, 04:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

Probably the preferred middle for many Saints would be to teach that it is wrong, that self-control and self-discipline are virtues, but to not freak out if the goal is not reached.

This summarizes my viewpoint quite well. I realize some have other ideas, but frankly, I'm not very interested in that particular aspect of this topic. My mind is pretty much made up, and I'm not likely to change my overall view of it. But my question really is, how do you effectively communicate that to a teenage kid?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

The main thing I have seen happen in the church is little to no talk about it. Or very brief quick stern statements "it is a sin" with no other discussion about its relative weight or importance.

This was my experience. In my teenage years, my bishop would come in to each Aaronic Priesthood quorum every year or so, and let us know it is a sin, and to come talk to him if we have a problem with it. But the tone of voice was not very inviting.

woot · 10-17-2007, 04:47 AM

I remember sitting at a youth activity that was meant to be a fun way to learn about different gospel topics. There were several booths set up around the gym, and at each booth awaiting a short lesson, after which we would rotate to the next booth.

Anyway, at one booth there was a crotchety older gentlemen in a brown sport jacket, and on the board in big chalk letters was the word "MASTERBATION". The first thing I noticed was that he had spelled it wrong, and I commented about it to my friend sitting next to me. We both giggled. This older man, who by that age had most likely masturbated thousands of times in his life, proceeded to give us an extremely vitriolic hellfire and damnation speech.

Nothing special about all that, except that my memory of it is way more vivid than it should be. This can be a traumatic subject for some kids, and handling with anything but extreme sensitivity and realism could have serious consequences. In my opinion, this scenario would represent the "less effective" example. I felt guilty every time I masturbated for years afterward.

minn_stat · 10-17-2007, 04:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by il Padrino Ute

LOL. Where/how you guys find this stuff, I have no idea....

il Padrino Ute · 10-17-2007, 05:02 AM

With Google, you can find just about anything.

I like the message this little (fake) ad sends: It doesn't say that it's sinful to masturbate, but who really hates kittens enough to do it?

10-17-2007, 03:34 AM	#1
minn_stat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 283	Masturbation and sex ed My two oldest children (10 yr old daughter, 9 yr old son) are getting to the age where sex education is becoming a bit more, shall we say, complicated. That is, instead of using simple generalities to answer their questions, more details are becoming necessary, and they will soon be at the age where the discussions should necessarily begin to include their own feelings and thoughts, as well as discussions about the morality issues surrounding sexuality. So far, things have gone pretty good. Last spring, two birds on the deck railing that were spotted by my then 8 year old son instigated a great, factual discussion on intercourse, with the two of them both present. Not too detailed or graphic, proper terms were used, no one seemed overly embarassed with the discussion. I was pretty happy how it went, and got a chuckle as they grasped the idea and commented how gross it was to think mom and dad had done that four times (we have four kids total). I told them it didn't always work, so they figured that eight times was doubly gross. I decided to leave it at that. One subject that I've given a bit of thought is how to treat the topic of masturbation. My own experience is that the degree of condemnation of it that often occurs in an LDS context can lead to excessive guilt and feelings of isolation, unworthiness, and failure. It often has the additional effect of making LDS kids unwilling to even discuss it and related subjects with their parents or others who might appropriately address concerns and questions. I've heard others express the same sentiment. Yet on the other hand, there are real dangers in having a too laissez-faire attitude as well. So I'm looking for appropriate ways to consider handling the issue so I'll be prepared when the situation arises. I realize bringing up this topic will likely produce its fair share of off-color humor and probably some controversy on the subject, but I'm truly interested in getting some serious feedback. I mostly lurk around here, but I've come to have quite a bit of respect for a fairly diverse group of posters on this board, and this is a subject that is usually easier discussed in a forum like this than it is with my "non-virtual" community. A few of my initial thoughts to follow...

10-17-2007, 04:03 AM	#5
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	__________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

10-17-2007, 05:02 AM	#10
il Padrino Ute Board Pinhead Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: In the basement of my house, Murray, Utah. Posts: 15,941	With Google, you can find just about anything. I like the message this little (fake) ad sends: It doesn't say that it's sinful to masturbate, but who really hates kittens enough to do it? __________________ "The beauty of baseball is not having to explain it." - Chuck Shriver "This is now the joke that stupid people laugh at." - Christopher Hitchens on IQ jokes about GWB.

10-17-2007, 03:39 AM	#2
minn_stat Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Minnesota Posts: 283	One of my primary lines of thought is to not focus too much on the act itself, but on some of the underlying principles. How it can lead to self-absorption and over indulging one’s appetites, and to the degree it becomes habitual, it begins to chain us. I’ve also thought of using a grade/GPA simile. Allowing it to become a common occurrence, and a method of dealing with uncomfortable emotions on a regular basis, is like having a 1.5 GPA. Not a good thing, something that could cause you trouble for years to come. But a 3.5 GPA is something to feel pretty darn good about, even if the ideal is a 4.0. I’d certainly not be condemnatory of a 3.5, although I may give some gentle encouragement towards raising it. Just a brief introduction to some of my musing about the subject.

10-17-2007, 03:51 AM	#3
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	LOL, someone is rubbing matches over gasoline. I'll let soonercoug weigh in first. (I'm assuming this is a serious question--the thing is that it was recently extensively discussed, ad nauseum).

10-17-2007, 04:05 AM	#6
MikeWaters Demiurge Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 36,365	One of the opinions that was offered was that masturbation is just fine, and that his father instructed him to never answer any questions about it from a Bishop. So that is probably one extreme. On the other hand BYU71 was taught he would go blind (and secondarily important, hell) if he did it. So that's the other extreme. Probably the preferred middle for many Saints would be to teach that it is wrong, that self-control and self-discipline are virtues, but to not freak out if the goal is not reached. The main thing I have seen happen in the church is little to no talk about it. Or very brief quick stern statements "it is a sin" with no other discussion about its relative weight or importance.

10-17-2007, 04:47 AM	#8
woot Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Denver Posts: 1,502	I remember sitting at a youth activity that was meant to be a fun way to learn about different gospel topics. There were several booths set up around the gym, and at each booth awaiting a short lesson, after which we would rotate to the next booth. Anyway, at one booth there was a crotchety older gentlemen in a brown sport jacket, and on the board in big chalk letters was the word "MASTERBATION". The first thing I noticed was that he had spelled it wrong, and I commented about it to my friend sitting next to me. We both giggled. This older man, who by that age had most likely masturbated thousands of times in his life, proceeded to give us an extremely vitriolic hellfire and damnation speech. Nothing special about all that, except that my memory of it is way more vivid than it should be. This can be a traumatic subject for some kids, and handling with anything but extreme sensitivity and realism could have serious consequences. In my opinion, this scenario would represent the "less effective" example. I felt guilty every time I masturbated for years afterward.