What do we make of this Iran vs. USA conflict?

[Archaea]

Here is a useful primar according to a compilation of 50 experts on Iran.

https://iranprimer.usip.org/frontpage

[Archaea]

This link is interesting for non-Iranians and summarizes in a very brief form the history of the Islamic Republic.

https://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/challenge-iran

[Archaea]

Lots of great stuff.

Twelver Shiites, the branch to which most Iranians belong, hold that the twelfth imam, or divinely-appointed successor of the Prophet, disappeared as a child in 874 AD and will one day become visible again in this world to restore it to justice as the Mahdi, or the promised one. In the absence of the Mahdi, Twelver Shiites believe that clerics trained in seminaries can substitute for his authority on some issues. So clerics in Shiism are powerful in interpreting God’s word for their followers. And the faithful are obliged to give blind obedience to cleric’s religious rulings. Khomeini transferred this religious power to Iran’s new theocracy after the revolution.

At the core of Shiite belief and history is a basic contradiction. Shiites believe in the need for divine authority in this world. But the disappearance of the Twelfth Imam in the ninth century left the community rudderless. Over time, Shiites have tried to answer this power vacuum in their faith in several contradictory ways. They came to hold that, in general, seminary-trained clergymen could substitute themselves for the absent Imam. Thus, they could authorize the state to collect and distribute the poor tax. They could authorize the appointment of Friday prayer leaders. But the trained clergymen only solved half the problem posed by the absence of the Imam, since no one alleged that they had the prerogative actually to rule, as the Imam did. Instead, they uneasily co-existed with lay monarchs, who exercised authority on a customary, common-law, not an Islamic-law, basis.

Sunni clergymen do not have the same prerogatives or powers as Shiite ayatollahs; they are more pastors than priests. The Sunni faithful do not owe blind obedience to their sheikhs. As a result, most Sunni Muslims are today organized, like Europeans, on the basis of the nation-state, and many have chosen a relatively secular national framework. The Sunni world is thus dominated by nationalist republics and by conservative monarchies. As a result, many Sunni governments, whether secular nationalists or monarchs, view Shiite Iran as a dire threat because it offers an alternative vision of the state based on religion and clerical authority. Sunnis are also concerned by the appeal of Khomeini-ism among Shiite communities outside Iran, especially in Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Lebanon, part of the so-called “Shiite crescent.”

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

He WAS the US representative. Now he is just a dude wearing mom jeans.

I don't know the language of the contract, but one assumes that one can back out of the contact. Just like right now, Iran is now following the contract as they agreed to with members of the EU.

I guess it would be easier if we had dictators for life, and Iran could deal with the same person for 30 years, sort of like Iran likes to do it.

Wow! What a “modern” mind set!

You are having too much fun trolling me.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by Archaea

This link is interesting for non-Iranians and summarizes in a very brief form the history of the Islamic Republic.

https://iranprimer.usip.org/resource/challenge-iran

Thanks for the link. Sorry I should have got back to your post sooner but life is a little hectic here. We are dealing with starvation in Iran, you know!

I couldn’t go through all the parts but i read what you chose to share in here about following the clergies. It needs a little clarification/correction. The case is, as a Shia muslim, you have to be either an expert or choose an expert in your day to day religious tasks and in doing so you have to do an extensive and comprehensive research in order to find someone worth following and you have to come up with the best. And you will be held accountable if you choose the clergy or follow his orders “blindly” as it is being mentioned in the excerpt you chose to share.

The clergies, who are eligible to be followed, are constantly being challenged by new ideas and cases and they have to come up with the proper answers for their followers. They have an updated version of their original book (Resale) every other then called ( Isteftaat) which are compilation of the answers to the new questions.

[MikeWaters]

"Question: When is it okay to shoot down an airliner and then lie about it?"

Looking forward to the next year's edition!

I wonder if the general who publicly said he told the authorities immediately that it was shot down will be executed.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

"Question: When is it okay to shoot down an airliner and then lie about it?"

Looking forward to the next year's edition!

I wonder if the general who publicly said he told the authorities immediately that it was shot down will be executed.

Never is it ok to lie, specially when you are a theocracy. They wouldn’t have told the truth and risked the dignity and the strength of the government in a blink of war with the most powerful army in the world, if they didn’t care about truth. It was a shock to the system which is already in high alert because your stable genius president had threatened to demolish culture sites.

I wonder how you treated your general who shut down an Iranian flight?? Ok, never mind, you honored him with a medal.

[MikeWaters]

Originally Posted by Mindfulcoug

Never is it ok to lie, specially when you are a theocracy. They wouldn’t have told the truth and risked the dignity and the strength of the government in a blink of war with the most powerful army in the world, if they didn’t care about truth. It was a shock to the system which is already in high alert because your stable genius president had threatened to demolish culture sites.

I wonder how you treated your general who shut down an Iranian flight?? Ok, never mind, you honored him with a medal.

That commander sounds like a dillweed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Rogers_III

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by Mindfulcoug

Thanks for the link. Sorry I should have got back to your post sooner but life is a little hectic here. We are dealing with starvation in Iran, you know!

I couldn’t go through all the parts but i read what you chose to share in here about following the clergies. It needs a little clarification/correction. The case is, as a Shia muslim, you have to be either an expert or choose an expert in your day to day religious tasks and in doing so you have to do an extensive and comprehensive research in order to find someone worth following and you have to come up with the best. And you will be held accountable if you choose the clergy or follow his orders “blindly” as it is being mentioned in the excerpt you chose to share.

The clergies, who are eligible to be followed, are constantly being challenged by new ideas and cases and they have to come up with the proper answers for their followers. They have an updated version of their original book (Resale) every other then called ( Isteftaat) which are compilation of the answers to the new questions.

It sounds complex and something I would be uncomfortable with but if you brings meaning to you, then I hope it brings you peace. I'm uncomfortable with any ecclesiastical leader telling me what I need to do in order to connect with the divine.

Reading up on your unique form of religiously controlled government is interesting but something that would be hard for a secular society to accept. We know leaders are imperfect, often corrupt and often not to be trusted. Your system seems to place a very high degree of trust in fallible human beings. I don't believe humans have earned that trust.

[Mindfulcoug]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

That commander sounds like a dillweed.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_C._Rogers_III

How funny! We have the exact same slang in Iran. We call it Shivid.