illegitimacy

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I haven't read the article, but I have a hard time believing that illegitimacy isn't a major social problem. How many black kids in America are raised by a single parent? 70%?

How many kids don't have a father?

The LDS church, by its nature, I think is uncomfortable in social intervention in society at large, unlike some churches.

The article certainly does NOT argue that it's not a social problem. What I was saying is that illegitimacy doesn't have the same stigma that it used to. See grapevine's brief discussion of the bastard child.

I also don't dispute that there are sometimes great social costs, particularly when we're talking teen pregnancy. But we don't find it so shocking as we used to.

I'm also not sure the LDS church has to make social interventions. But what about some social commentary on the topic. Do we address the social costs of teen pregnancy among our teens, for example? (which I would do sans the example of Bristol Palin, as I suggested above).

Have you ever heard of the Charles Crittendon Mission? I did a research paper about this organization at one point, and it was fascinating to read about the evolition of that mission, a religious one, which went from trying to save prostitutes to trying to save teen mothers, to trying to get babies from teen mothers for adoptive parents, to basically nothing.

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by BlueK

Except that she's flip flopped on it. Even after her child's birth she said abstinence was "unrealistic." Her parents have since gotten her to dump the boyfriend and her tune has changed. I think it's a shame for her that she's been thrown into the public limelight. That wasn't her choice. But my cynical side seems to tell me this most recent statement from her has something to do with making her mom's christian right friends happy.

yes, part of the problem. And if I imagine myself as a teen listening to her, I imagine myself rolling my eyes as she tells me to choose abstinance. Unless she wants to make the case for why her choices were awful, which I don't think she's doing. what is realistic?

[RedHeadGal]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

It's politics. Palin's stock value with Dobson's crew is slipping as more and more private details come out about the family. Palin needs Bristol to play the sympathetic figure of the devout Christian girl who made a mistake, and has repented, and is taking responsibility for the consequences of her sin. Then she's done the "go and sin no more" thing, and any critics will have to face "let he who is without sin" rebuttals.

see, in Mormon circles, I believe the counsel generally is to get married or to give up the baby. I'm waiting for someone to correct me if I'm wrong on this. Because otherwise her "taking responsibility" transfers to the child, which deserves to grow up in a two-parent family.

But what do I know? Just the other day I was ruminating on whether I think 30-something single sisters (the spinsters, if you will), ought to be able to go ahead and find a sperm donor and have kids if they want to.

[MikeWaters]

The stigma is quite high in the LDS church I think. I'm not sure there is a pressing need to make the stigma even greater.

I remember meeting an attractive young woman on my mission who was LDS, but quit, after what she described as hostile treatment in her ward when she became pregnant out of wedlock.

How many LDS pregnant teenagers, young women, are sent away to hinterlands for their convalescence, so they can away from prying eyes and inquisitive minds?

[Tex]

Originally Posted by RedHeadGal

You think so? See, she's famous for it. And in a heroic way--look at her! She chose life! Is that what you would want to teach young Texies? How heroic do you want her to be? Or do you see her as a bad example?

Maybe I'm missing something here. Here's what Time Magazine reports that she's saying:

Bristol's main message as she stepped out this week was only partially about abstinence. It was more about parenthood: that it is hard, and exhausting, and bittersweet to hold your blessed child in your arms and wonder at him, while knowing that your friends are at the movies, and your term paper is due, and everything that was supposed to be normal right now is hovering just out of your reach. "I'm just here to tell teens this is a really hard job," Bristol told Matt Lauer. "It's not like an accessory on your hip. It's hard work."

That doesn't sound like "my baby was a mistake." It sounds like a person coming to terms with how her choices have affected her life, and advising her peers to do it better that she did.

Is it "heroic" for someone to admit their bad choices and ask people to learn from their mistakes? I don't know if it is or isn't, but I don't think it's a bad thing.

[MikeWaters]

I think it's heroic how Bristol is having her media agent arrange appearances for her to tell us that being a single teen Mom is difficult.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think it's heroic how Bristol is having her media agent arrange appearances for her to tell us that being a single teen Mom is difficult.

I'm setting aside the political implications of this, just for the sake of discussion.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by MikeWaters

I think it's heroic how Bristol is having her media agent arrange appearances for her to tell us that being a single teen Mom is difficult.

She's being compensated, Mike.

She spoke her mind a couple of months ago, when she said she understands her parents' position but thinks that abstinence is unrealistic in today's society. But the Candies Foundation offered to compensate her for becoming a national advocate for teen abstinence, and she agreed. Now she's behind abstinence 100%.

You know she's right. It's really hard to be a teen mom these days. What with having to go to school and juggle the spokesperson gig and make the campaign appearances and stop by Oprah and manage the nanny, too. I get tired just thinking of it.

[Tex]

Originally Posted by BarbaraGordon

She's being compensated, Mike.

She spoke her mind a couple of months ago, when she said she understands her parents' position but thinks that abstinence is unrealistic in today's society. But the Candies Foundation offered to compensate her for becoming a national advocate for teen abstinence, and she agreed. Now she's behind abstinence 100%.

You know she's right. It's really hard to be a teen mom these days. What with having to go to school and juggle the spokesperson gig and make the campaign appearances and stop by Oprah and manage the nanny, too. I get tired just thinking of it.

Barbara always did have a Palin complex.

[BarbaraGordon]

Originally Posted by Tex

Barbara always did have a Palin complex.

I simply see the Palins for what they are, and I did from day one.