Samuelson and the Honor Code

[Jeff Lebowski]

I recently heard Cecil Samuelson once again repeat Bronco's line (with no attribution, BTW) about how at BYU we have winning athletic programs because of the honor code, not in spite of the honor code. I really cringe when I hear that because it smacks of hubris and flat-out B.S. Why not be honest and say "We recognize that there may be a price to pay in terms of winning by enforcing the honor code. But we are going to do it anyway because we feel it is the right thing for us to do." Now that is a statement I could respect.

Let's put it this way: what is the strongest and most successful NCAA sports program in the US currently? I would argue it is Florida. They also happened to be voted the #1 party school in America recently. And their football games are referred to as the "world's largest cocktail party". A year or two ago, Texas got the dubious honor as #1 party school. I believe it was the same year they won the national championship over USC.

[BYU71]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I recently heard Cecil Samuelson once again repeat Bronco's line (with no attribution, BTW) about how at BYU we have winning athletic programs because of the honor code, not in spite of the honor code. I really cringe when I hear that because it smacks of hubris and flat-out B.S. Why not be honest and say "We recognize that there may be a price to pay in terms of winning by enforcing the honor code. But we are going to do it anyway because we feel it is the right thing for us to do." Now that is a statement I could respect.

Let's put it this way: what is the strongest and most successful NCAA sports program in the US currently? I would argue it is Florida. They also happened to be voted the #1 party school in America recently. And their football games are referred to as the "world's largest cocktail party". A year or two ago, Texas got the dubious honor as #1 party school. I believe it was the same year they won the national championship over USC.

If they want to find a way to believe that, it is fine with me. Just back it up. Go out and win on a consistent basis. If they win they can say anything they want. I don't have to agree with them, but who cares as long as they win.

Heck, I have had people affiliated with the church say many really dumb things. Doesn't bother me as long as I see people in the church doing good things and being good people.

If BYU fans really believe this honor code thing is more than just a way to conrol a college populus, why do they get so upset other schools let kids get away with things. The more corrupt (in the eyes of BYU fans) others are, the easier we should be able to beat them.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by Jeff Lebowski

I recently heard Cecil Samuelson once again repeat Bronco's line (with no attribution, BTW) about how at BYU we have winning athletic programs because of the honor code, not in spite of the honor code. I really cringe when I hear that because it smacks of hubris and flat-out B.S. Why not be honest and say "We recognize that there may be a price to pay in terms of winning by enforcing the honor code. But we are going to do it anyway because we feel it is the right thing for us to do." Now that is a statement I could respect.

Let's put it this way: what is the strongest and most successful NCAA sports program in the US currently? I would argue it is Florida. They also happened to be voted the #1 party school in America recently. And their football games are referred to as the "world's largest cocktail party". A year or two ago, Texas got the dubious honor as #1 party school. I believe it was the same year they won the national championship over USC.

world's largest cocktail party only refers to the UF UGA game every year.

i agree with you. i know samuelson, and i think he is making this comment as an "institution man"... i wonder sometimes if it makes these guys as sick to say this stuff as it makes me listening to it.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

world's largest cocktail party only refers to the UF UGA game every year.

i agree with you. i know samuelson, and i think he is making this comment as an "institution man"... i wonder sometimes if it makes these guys as sick to say this stuff as it makes me listening to it.

Why does he appear so disinterested in his job at BYU?

I know people who claim to know Samuelson, who were excited that we got somebody good, and I've been nothing but unimpressed.

Do you have any insights as to his performance or lack thereof?

As to Jeff, I agree to be big in sports, usually means you must be lax in other areas, such as partying and grades.

[OrangeUte]

Originally Posted by Archaea

Why does he appear so disinterested in his job at BYU?

I know people who claim to know Samuelson, who were excited that we got somebody good, and I've been nothing but unimpressed.

Do you have any insights as to his performance or lack thereof?

As to Jeff, I agree to be big in sports, usually means you must be lax in other areas, such as partying and grades.

i think what you see out of samuelson as the pres. of byu, is him trying to balance his incredible capabilities and his embracing of open learning with his wanting to be loyal to the church brass. it comes across as unimpressive b/c the church is afraid of academic impression beyond training young men and women to become adults of achievement in their professional fields.

i guarantee you that the new stance at byu (and perhaps even in the church) on homosexuality is driven by cecil's sensitivities on the subject toward those members of the church.

[OrangeUte]

by the way, can i just comment here that i get so sick of hearing pres. hinkley talking about how the leaders of the church are "men and women of great accomplishment..." who cares!

[Insensitive PAP]

So basically Samuelson is a sellout?

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

by the way, can i just comment here that i get so sick of hearing pres. hinkley talking about how the leaders of the church are "men and women of great accomplishment..." who cares!

One limiting factor on judging Samuelson is his poor public speaking, it really is NOT one of this virtues. Thus, when we see poorly worded and even more meekly delivered public addresses it makes it hard to judge him fairly.

To me, it seems as if he's just biding his time at BYU, no passion, no love.

[OrangeUte]

no - that's too simplistic of a reading of my comments. he's loyal to the institution and tries to balance that with academic integrity and openness, which is very difficult to do.

[Archaea]

Originally Posted by OrangeUte

no - that's too simplistic of a reading of my comments. he's loyal to the institution and tries to balance that with academic integrity and openness, which is very difficult to do.

Some of the female professors with whom I'm familiar didn't get the sense he was entirely sympathetic to their concerns as women.